3. Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
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Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
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hello

I got a ticket Code 01 "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours" on the 28th May (Sunday). On the day, unfortunately when I returned to the car the PCN was not there so I only became aware of it via the Notice to Owner posted 4 weeks after the incident.

I incorrectly assumed that it would be legal to park on a single yellow line as it was a Sunday. There was no sign regarding the yellow line where I parked. After having received the NtO, I discovered that there is a huge area in Greenwich which is a Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ), which includes the street I was parked on.

I plan to appeal based on the 2 points listed below, and if the appeal is not successful, at least I have the opportunity to pay it with a discount (£65 instead of £130), which I did not have given the missing PCN as explained on the first paragraph.

a) Insufficient/inapporpriate signage - when entering the CPZ from the A200 (Creek Rd), the speed limit is 30mph. Even if you are driving at 20mph there is not enough time to see the sign rules. In addition to that, the sign is adjacent to a bus lane, so in case a bus is passing by, the view is completely obstructed at that point - see 2 photos attached;

b) Size of the CPZ: from another appeal in a similar situation in Greenwich (link copied below), I found that there is an operational guidance document (I cannot find the original document by the way), in which the Secretary of State's view is that "motorists cannot reasonably be expected to read, understand and remember parking restrictions at the entrance of a CPZ that covers an area of more than a dozen streets". The CPZ area in Greenwich probaly includes more than 60 roads (the Greenwich council website no longer lists all the roads/streets, but the attached photo shows the area, which is huge)

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t66334.html

Appreciate your thoughts and any help in advance.

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Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #1 on: »
Well let's start with the basics, did actually enter the CPZ on the A200?

Also please post a link to the location on google street view, rather than a screenshot, as we need to have a look around.

In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order.

Also please post up the actual PCN, see guidance here on how to post images if you've run out of upload space.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2023, 11:44:20 am by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 06, 2023, 11:41:32 am
In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order.
I've just realised I can't do that, as I have no idea where you were parked. As above, you need to post the PCN otherwise we can't do even the most basic of checks.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #3 on: »
I was parked here

https://goo.gl/maps/vsFwtxHujty28Bit9

I can't post the PCN as it was not on my windscreen as explained on my original post
« Last Edit: July 06, 2023, 09:14:28 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #4 on: »
I'll request the traffic order now, in the meantime please can you post up the NTO?

Did you actually enter the CPZ via the A200?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #5 on: »
I have finally found the pdf with the operarional guidance (via scribd).

To the best of my recollection I entered via A200.

Here is the NtO as requested

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Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #6 on: »
You have until 30 July to make representations so there's no immediate rush.

Please give us the PCN number and the number plate so that we can have a look at the council photos.

The point about the size of the CPZ is not generally accepted, but there's a new argument about CPZs that has come up about whether the CPZ is legally defined in the traffic order, if it isn't then the signage is not authorised to being with (whether it's adequate or not).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #7 on: »
I thought we were not supposed to post the PCN number or the registration number?!

Could you please let me know what you need these photos for

Thanks
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Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #8 on: »
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Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: cetico on July 07, 2023, 02:53:38 pm
Could you please let me know what you need these photos for
To see if you have a case to answer for starters. Also, to check if the traffic order matches what's on the road.

People sometimes forget but in the first instance you don't have to prove anything, it's up to the council to prove a contravention and if they don't do that, you don't really need anything to appeal, you can just put them to proof.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Greenwich, code 01 parked on a restricted street, College Approach, yellow line (Sunday)
« Reply #10 on: »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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