3. PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
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PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
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Hi all,

I’ve received a PCN for parking at a loading bay while collecting a very large parcel from the Post Office. I was there a short time.

PCN: GX17312478
Reg:NX63ZPZ
Egerton road N16.

The signage clearly says no parking exempt loading max 20 min.

Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/bGtzM7kgGzkmRcEB8?g_st=ic

Images: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AinsWFn-YrmRiTnMmFMKdvyC1DcR

Many thanks for your help and advice.
Regards.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 06:05:39 pm by Sol T »
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Re: PCN. Red route. Loading
« Reply #1 on: »
For meaningful advice please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here both sides of the unredacted PCN and a GSV link to the location.
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #2 on: »
Can someone please help me with this.


Many thanks.
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #3 on: »
What were you collecting.

You can ask TFL for the video which may show you loading it.

The location helpfully says o/s Post Office.

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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #4 on: »
Best as SFM says, ask for the video. First off that kicks the PCN into touch for a couple of weeks, and allows more careful examination.

Do you have details of weight and bulk of the parcel ? You should claim loading, but's let wait for the video. Once they have committed to sending it out, mark you diary 10 days ahead and if video hasn't turned up, submit reps on the basis of loading, giving details of the parcel to be loaded.
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you for your advice.

I have requested a copy of the footage.

Just curious whether loading is only exempt for commercial and business purposes such as deliveries etc, or the loading exemption is also for individuals who are carrying or dropping off large weighs?
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #6 on: »
Unless a sign says "Goods Vehicle Loading Only", then anybody, private or business can load/unload.
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Re: Update- PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you, @Incandescent and everyone,

The sign at the location clearly says red route and no stopping allowed, except for loading for up to 20 minutes, without specifying whether this applies only to domestic or commercial vehicles.

As advised, I requested the footage from TFL, and they provided a DVD showing my vehicle. However, the footage does not include the loading time or parking nor does it prove that I exceeded the 20-minute loading allowance.

What should my next steps be in challenging this? What should I include in my response?

I have evidence of a heavy load being collected from the post office.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #8 on: »
@Sol T this should be reasonably straightforward, but please could you post the video and also tell us what evidence you have of loading a heavy parcel? As long as the evidence is sound, the outcome of this should be a foregone conclusion, loading isn't just for businesses and covers private individuals as long as the objects being unloaded are heavy / difficult to carry.

Please note you statutory deadline to make representations is midnight tonight so this is urgent.

Also tell us how long you were taking this parcel to the post office, how long the queue was etc.

Most up-to-date photo of the sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/USaPGyZQfVu4i1qDA
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks @cp8759 for your help.

I can’t post the footage as it was sent through a CD, the footage is short it is roughly 10 minutes it just shows the car parked in the loading bay. No parking or unloading is in the video.

The evidence of the unloading is an email of the product which is obviously heavy weight and a SMS message to collect it from the post office.

Many thanks.
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #10 on: »
@Sol T could you upload the CCTV to dropbox, google drive or similar? We will need it to request the make and model of the CCTV camera, which would be useful to investigate whether TFL has the proper authorisation in place to use that camera for parking enfocement.

In the meantime we need a detailed account from you to justify the 10 minutes seen in the footage. Was there a queue at the post office? Were you held up for some other reason? That is the sort of detail that really must go into the representation.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #11 on: »
See footage https://app.box.com/s/lq2dtsla7zy8xa8vj3v4lbixww016bg6

It was most probably more than 10 min but that’s what TFL recorded, I was probably 15-20 min the queue was very long and few tills open. The package was very heavy that I had to go into the back to collect from their storage area.

Many thanks again @cp8759
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #12 on: »
Broken link?

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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #13 on: »
Apologies.

Try this one, I recorded once again.


https://app.box.com/s/vtif8aw99t9bzsoptecsj6a4xlhbel4p
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Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
« Reply #14 on: »
@Sol T please just upload the original mkv file from TFL, I'm sure that laptop you were filming can connect to dropbox.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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