3. PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
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PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
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Good afternoon,

I regularly park on this road as its walking distance to a hospital, on my return to the car I had this PCN.
I parked within a parking bay which can fit two small cars, there was no signage around. The dropped kerb has access to flats as you can see in google maps. Although I was not blocking any access, furthermore my car was behind the black bollard.

Havering council did not take or upload any pictures of the alleged offence.






Street view

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XBd7DSUyqD2cyHi6A


any help would be appreciated
« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 03:29:00 pm by Saj_87 »
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #1 on: »
That's not a contravention as you are just short of the fully dropped part of the footway. The sloping kerbstone doesn't count.

Havering seems to be slow about loading pics at present but they will have some.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #2 on: »
+1
And Havering council also know full well that the sloping part isn't included in the prohibition of parking, but serve PCNs anyway, because they know virtually all people getting a PCN then just cough-up. Yes, it's immoral, venal, and rapacious behaviour, but par for the course with council and also governmental departments these days; think of the Post Office Horizon scandal.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on November 18, 2024, 04:26:57 pm
That's not a contravention as you are just short of the fully dropped part of the footway. The sloping kerbstone doesn't count.

Havering seems to be slow about loading pics at present but they will have some.

Thank you for your reply,

Its been over a week and theres been no pics which have been uploaded. Do you have any regulations or where I can look to object the contravention.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 18, 2024, 07:23:58 pm
+1
And Havering council also know full well that the sloping part isn't included in the prohibition of parking, but serve PCNs anyway, because they know virtually all people getting a PCN then just cough-up. Yes, it's immoral, venal, and rapacious behaviour, but par for the course with council and also governmental departments these days; think of the Post Office Horizon scandal.

Thank you for confirming, I will start an appeal for it, although I do need evidence for the sloping part.
Where can I look for this information?

Kind regards
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #5 on: »
You don't need to quote the Traffic Management Act verbatim at this informal stage - they are supposed to know it. I would just send the below.

--------------------

I am challenging the PCN on the grounds that there was no contravention. As your pictures make clear, none of my car was adjacent to the fully lowered part of the kerb. The sloping part does not count as it is not fully lowered.

I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #6 on: »
Back in August, Stamfordman discovered this handy text & image on Hillingdon's website
https://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/4972/Enforcement-of-dropped-kerbs
(scroll down)
which you can use to remind Havering of the law. It produced an unbelievable response from Harrow -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/parking-on-road-next-to-dropped-kerb-contravention-27/msg45242/#msg45242
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #7 on: »
Richmond is also one of the good ones on this.

-------------

The Traffic Management Act 2004 section 86 is clear that the vehicle must not park adjacent to the section that has been lowered (or raised) to meet the level of the carriageway.

Please note that the sloping areas on either side of a crossover do not form part of the crossover. The vehicle must be parked either in front of the dropped footway where it meets the level of the carriageway or overhanging this section of the dropped kerb.

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/dropped_kerb_enforcement#:~:text=The%20Traffic%20Management%20Act%202004%20section%2086%20is%20clear%20that,form%20part%20of%20the%20crossover.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #8 on: »
Council have finally put the pictures up after waiting over a week




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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #9 on: »
They don't have a close up but it's clear that with your pic as extra you were only by the sloping stone. They also show you by a brick wall.

This is a win for you.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on November 21, 2024, 09:54:11 am
They don't have a close up but it's clear that with your pic as extra you were only by the sloping stone. They also show you by a brick wall.

This is a win for you.
+1
As close to a slam-dunk win as I've seen recently.
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #11 on: »
I've finally got a reply and they have still insisted that the contravention still stands. Please see the image below

Furthermore, I constantly see cars parked in the same spot without getting tickets.

Any suggestions on what to do next?

https://imgur.com/a/Zg4m2mb
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 01:36:12 pm by Saj_87 »
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #12 on: »
Image? What stage are you at? I am tempted to offer to represent.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 14, 2025, 12:14:09 pm
Image? What stage are you at? I am tempted to offer to represent.

Aplogies! Please see the link now. Recieved a letter stating the contravention still stands, either pay up or wait for Notice to owner
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Re: PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave
« Reply #14 on: »
Wait for the NTO.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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  3. PCN Havering Borough - Code 27, Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to drop kerb - Grenfell Ave