Author Topic: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying  (Read 705 times)

0 Members and 221 Guests are viewing this topic.

London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« on: »
I drove to Harrow today and parked in a multi-storey car park. Had to use ‘PayByPhone’ app on my handheld for the first time. After downloading app and registering the car, I paid for two hours of time.  After approximately 15 minutes into the paid time, I discovered looking at the app, I had got one digit of my car registration plate wrong, putting in a 5 instead of a 6 - the keys are very close on my handheld. I immediately tried to edit the registration number, but couldn’t, so I registered the correct number by having to put in another car (without correct plate number) and paid another £1.20 (frustrating as I doubt I will get this back). Upon returning to my car a PCN was attached to my windscreen. The timing of the PCN issue was only minutes after the commencement of the first payment on the slightly incorrect registration number and unfortunately before the start of the timings for the 2nd payment for the correct number. I presume I can appeal and also can I get back the 2nd payment as obviously that was in vain?


PCN LINKS - Front & Rear: https://imgur.com/a/hU9ZBaD
« Last Edit: July 07, 2024, 09:05:24 am by Firestone »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: PCN for not paying
« Reply #1 on: »
Please read this and update your post accordingly: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

From your narrative, it does seem you have the grounds of a good representation to submit to the council, because you recognised your error and corrected it quite soon after parking. However, councils can be very venal and rapacious, so don't be too hopeful. In addition, it's best not to be confrontational with what will be an  informal challenge.


Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #2 on: »
For convenience:





Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #3 on: »
Are there not recent guidelines issued to councils that they must accept appeals at the first stage where it can be shown that the a small error had been such as one digit wrong on the number plate. I also have a screenshot saved from my phone showing both virtual tickets ‘active’ and that the time had been paid for with the first one? I assume that the screenshot can be sent as an attachment to an online appeal?

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #4 on: »
Entering a "O" instead of a "0", or vice versa is common, and there is a robust appeal for that based on the font that must be used for a numberplate but a "5" instead of a "6" is different.  However, I think you still have a good case.
Wait a bit for others to comment. You have the right in law to take them to the adjudicators, but must, of course, risk the full penalty if you do.

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #5 on: »
Yes., unfortunately my phone (iPhone SE, based on the model 5) is very small and on the virtual keyboard the 5 & 6 numerical keys are obviously next to each other horizontally across the screen. Very easy to hit the wrong one. I find it hard to believe that the council wouldn’t accept an honest mistake like this.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2024, 10:50:57 pm by Firestone »

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #6 on: »
Obs made between 11.13 and 11.25.

Your first paid session started at ***?

Your second session started at ***?

Details pl.

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #7 on: »
Have a read of the Statutory Guidance here: -
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions#considering-challenges-representations-and-appeals
Councils are legally obliged, (Section 87, Traffic Management Act 2004), to "have regard to" the guidance when operating their enforcement regime.


Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #8 on: »
First paid session was for 2-hours starting at 11:11AM

Second paid session was for 2-hours starting at 11:32AM

I have a screen shot saved from the app showing both virtual tickets running side by side

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #9 on: »
Info requested by H C Anderson

First paid session was for 2-hours starting at 11:11AM

Second paid session was for 2-hours starting at 11:32AM

I have a screen shot saved from the app showing both virtual tickets running side by side

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #10 on: »
Yes., unfortunately my phone (iPhone SE, based on the model 5) is very small and on the virtual keyboard the 5 & 6 numerical keys are obviously next to each other horizontally across the screen. Very easy to hit the wrong one. I find it hard to believe that the council wouldn’t accept an honest mistake like this.
I too have this problem with mobile phone keyboards. I have quite wide fingers and often press the wrong key several times before I get the right one. I simply can't use apps for banking or anything critical on a mobile phone. The world expects everyone to be tech savy, they don't take into account people's fingers differ in size, eyesight fades with age etc.and there's not always a mobile signal anyway.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 11:10:51 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #12 on: »
Well the start time of the 2nd session was at 11.32, so I reckon I started the process at around 5 minutes before that, say 11:27AM.  I had to input another car on the app, then go through the rigmarole of choosing time, adding payment from saved bank card & refreshing the screen - I had terrible trouble with the screen hanging despite good data connection - it was stuck 'processing' on both sessions for ages.

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #13 on: »
I think your best bet is to make a plea for discretion, explaining everything you've explained to us, and asking that they cancel the penalty in light of the fact that you paid the parking charge not once but twice.

Put a draft on here in the first instance and we'll tidy it up for you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: London Boro of Harrow, Wealdstone - PCN for not paying
« Reply #14 on: »
I think your best bet is to make a plea for discretion, explaining everything you've explained to us, and asking that they cancel the penalty in light of the fact that you paid the parking charge not once but twice.

Put a draft on here in the first instance and we'll tidy it up for you.

Dear Sir/Madam
I am sending in this appeal to ask you if you might kindly cancel the PCN (No: HR75275897) as the contravention of being ‘parked without paying’ did not actually occur.

This was the first time that I had used the PayByPhone app, however I did purchase a parking period which began at 11:11AM for two hours. Regrettably I discovered some 15 minutes later, that payment had been made on a slightly incorrect reg no - LO65OWM.  My phone is very small and of course the numbers 5 & 6 on the virtual keyboard are next to each other and it’s very easy to hit the other key.  Being unable to edit the entry, I immediately began the process of purchasing another time period on LO66OWM, but due to the process and the program ‘hanging' whilst ‘processing’, the new time period didn’t become active until 11:32AM for another two hours. I would therefore be most grateful if you would cancel the PCN as the mis-entry on the first time period was an honest mistake and I've now paid twice.


The appeal must be no more than 1000 words - this above is on that limit!

Thank-you