Author Topic: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave  (Read 8660 times)

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PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
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Hi

Received a PCN for Being in a Bus Lane in Northolt Road junction with Alexandra Avenue from Harrow Borough Council.

Observed by unattended camera.

Anyway, this junction seems to be notorious for going from a bus lane that operates within specified hours to a very short stretch that operates at all hours. The issue is, you don't see the sign until you are already in the lane and by then you cannot safely avoid it.

From reading previous posts, this section of bus lane is about long enough to accommodate a bus and that's it. After which it goes back to normal. Seems like sharp practice to me.

I am hoping that I can get some help/support as to the best way to challenge the PCN in terms of what to say/include etc.

PCN details:

Thanks a lot

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Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post rest of PCN, the video, and a GSV link to location.

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #2 on: »
There didn't seem to be a video, just some still images.
The rest of the PCN on the reverse just lists payment options.

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« Last Edit: October 02, 2023, 11:24:01 pm by cp8759 »

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #3 on: »
There are often mistakes in the 'small print' of PCNs, which why it is a good idea to post the rest.

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #4 on: »
There are often mistakes in the 'small print' of PCNs, which why it is a good idea to post the rest.

Fair enough...

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #5 on: »
I'll find out the make and model of the camera, in the meantime try drafting a representation based on inadequate signage. Adjudicators have ruled against the council on the merits of the signage on more than one occasion, so that should be the starting point.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #6 on: »
I'll find out the make and model of the camera, in the meantime try drafting a representation based on inadequate signage. Adjudicators have ruled against the council on the merits of the signage on more than one occasion, so that should be the starting point.

Thanks.  Do you want me post the draft representation here?
Regards

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #7 on: »
Please do.

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #8 on: »
Please do.

Thanks - is there a template that I can use or follow?  Or any examples that I can base it on?

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #9 on: »
Just have a go in your own words and we'll tidy it up for you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #10 on: »
OK, here goes:

I was travelling along the road inside a Bus Lane that has operational hours of 7-10am & 4-7pm Mon-Fri.  That Bus Lane ends and the lane goes back to normal - as in, all traffic can use it all the time.

As I travelled around the bend in the road, I found myself in a new Bus Lane which operates At All Hours, but the sign is only visible once you are already in the Bus Lane.  The Bus Lane itself is very short - maybe the length of a bus - and there is no way to safely move into the adjacent lane without causing issues to other traffic.  After the very short section of bus lane, the road returns to all traffic.

It seems odd that there is a very long stretch of bus lane that operates within given hours and even then only Mon-Fri, and then a very short section of bus lane which operates at all hours after the original bus lane has ended.  This is made worse by the fact that the bus lane sign cannot be seen until you are already in the bus lane, thereby making it too late and dangerous to move out of the prohibited section.  In fact, the sign is confusing as it can be interpreted that it refers to the bus lane that has already ended in the original lane.

I therefore challenge the PCN on the basis of incorrect and insufficient signage.

Please let me know if I'm on the right lines!

Thanks

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #11 on: »
That's a good challenge as it has won here on many occasions, but the council will reject it along with anything else you say at this stage

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #12 on: »
Should I go ahead and enter this challenge?

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #13 on: »
Yes.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: PCN - Bus Lane - Harrow, Northolt Rd jct Alexandra Ave
« Reply #14 on: »
Hi again

What is the best option to pick from this list?

Thanks