3. PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
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PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
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Hi all,

re: 52M failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicle)

I received a notification of PCN from my car leasing company giving me a heads up of a PCN that has been served. They have informed the Barking & Dagenham council of my details, so I expect to receive something in the post very shortly. In the meantime, they forwarded me a copy of the PCN which I have attached below. Not entirely sure who was driving the vehicle at the time. There is video and photo evidence on the Barking & Dagenham website but not sure how to attach these here.

Are there any grounds for challenging this?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JZ926y-iZCzSYabLZJXwls-B5SWk9xNL/view?usp=sharing
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #1 on: »
Any thoughts?
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #2 on: »
Who was driving is irrelevant, it is the V5 holder who has responsibility. However, with leased vehicles, the company can normally transfer responsibility to the person leasing the car, (you I assume).

We really do need to see the video, as that is the sole evidence.

You wold seem to have passed a "flying motorbike" sign that is, essentially, a "No Entry" sign for motor vehicles.
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #3 on: »
Can somebody assist with getting the video/photos added or ping over some instructions? Thanks.
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #4 on: »
Video:



Best bet here would be the council messing up the transfer of liability.

Let us know when you get your own PCN.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 12:23:27 am by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #5 on: »
Hi folks,

I have just received the PCN in the post so Hyundai have transferred over the liability. See PCN below.

https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1DaNbrnrq-h17Z12phNhhMi49C825_Cej

Any advice at this point?

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 11:01:06 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #6 on: »
You might want to redact your name and address from the PCN.
Check with Hyundai that they have received from the Council a cancellation of their PCN. If they have not, ask them to confirm in writing/e-mail.
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #7 on: »
As John says, the first step is to get confirmation of whether the registered keeper received a response from the council after they requested a transfer of liability. If the council hasn't issued any correspondence to them, then it's open and shut as the PCN served on you is both ultra-vires and out of time.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on September 10, 2023, 01:10:55 pm
You might want to redact your name and address from the PCN.
Check with Hyundai that they have received from the Council a cancellation of their PCN. If they have not, ask them to confirm in writing/e-mail.

Thanks for the heads-up
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 10, 2023, 11:02:01 pm
As John says, the first step is to get confirmation of whether the registered keeper received a response from the council after they requested a transfer of liability. If the council hasn't issued any correspondence to them, then it's open and shut as the PCN served on you is both ultra-vires and out of time.

Thank you both for the advice. I've emailed Hyundai to see if they can confirm whether they received a confirmation of the PCN being cancelled and transferred but will follow up with the phone call in the morning.


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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #10 on: »
@cp8759 @John U.K

I just received the below message from Hyundai. So the council has not cancelled the original PCN or communicated with Hyundai since they issued it.


Quote
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email.

We have not received any further correspondence from the authority.

I have checked the website and this is still showing as £65 outstanding to pay.

Please let us know if we can assist any further.

Kind Regards,
« Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 10:27:45 am by bigred247 »
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #11 on: »
Save that e-mail carefully . . . CP will explain :)

There are now two live PCNs in circulation for the same alleged offence.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 10:43:29 am by John U.K. »
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #12 on: »
As John says don't lose that email. Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ99465565 because the PCN is out of time. It follows that you must cancel the penalty charge.

Yours faithfully,
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on September 12, 2023, 10:55:24 am
As John says don't lose that email. Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

I challenge liability for PCN BZ99465565 because the PCN is out of time. It follows that you must cancel the penalty charge.

Yours faithfully,

Brilliant. Thanks for the guidance around this chaps. Is there any reason to wait or am I good to go with this draft?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2023, 10:52:07 am by bigred247 »
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Re: PCN - 52M - Barking & Dagenham
« Reply #14 on: »
No reason to wait, make the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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