3. TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
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TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
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My wife had stopped for some time (10 mins approx) on commercial road, to re-adjust the baby's car seat on Sunday.  There are no stopping restrictions on Sunday, and you can see in the pictures that the car brake lights are on.  At no point did anybody step out of the car.  However a ticket has been issued for parking by TFL.  Are there any grounds to contest this please ? 



 PCN Scan










TFL Pictures


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Google Location Link
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jg8ZKBK6czYTYxxC7
« Last Edit: November 20, 2023, 12:02:56 pm by flash2005 »
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #1 on: »
The bay is suspended, you can see the black plastic cover over the sign for the bay. Indeed the bay needs to be removed, because TfL have put in a 24x7 bus lane there.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iS6FgMZ8CYAfW2Nr9
GSV shows the bay sign there with the 24x7 bus lane which means nobody can access the bay anyway.  Your wife could have been done for entering the bus lane.
I'm assuming the bus lane is still 24x7
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 20, 2023, 02:13:56 pm
The bay is suspended, you can see the black plastic cover over the sign for the bay. Indeed the bay needs to be removed, because TfL have put in a 24x7 bus lane there.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iS6FgMZ8CYAfW2Nr9
GSV shows the bay sign there with the 24x7 bus lane which means nobody can access the bay anyway.  Your wife could have been done for entering the bus lane.
I'm assuming the bus lane is still 24x7
Yes you are right, the bus lane rule has been violated here, but the contravention given by the operator is related to parking.  Is there a 10 minute grace period applicable ?  Are there any grounds to appeal this ?
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #3 on: »
The grace period applies if you over-run parking time in a designated parking place. Here it is no longer a designated parking place.  Frankly, I see no appeal argument at all, as your narrative does not indicate any urgent action was needed. Stopping like this is always covered by "Unable to proceed for reasons outside the control of the driver".  As it stands, I can't see this applies unless you can tell us different.
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 20, 2023, 02:41:04 pm
The grace period applies if you over-run parking time in a designated parking place. Here it is no longer a designated parking place.  Frankly, I see no appeal argument at all, as your narrative does not indicate any urgent action was needed. Stopping like this is always covered by "Unable to proceed for reasons outside the control of the driver".  As it stands, I can't see this applies unless you can tell us different.
Stopping was required for safety reasons as the seatbelt for the baby had to be adjusted. But it is difficult to provide any concrete evidence other than this argument itself.
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #5 on: »
Nothing wrong with that argument, most things like this are impossible to prove with solid evidence, but they are valid nonetheless.  but inevitably, you'd have to go to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision. This would mean forgoing the discount.
If you do go there, it would be essential for your wife to attend the hearing so the adjudicator could ask questions. This would normally be by telephone. The civil law test of "on the balance of probabilities" is used, not the criminal test. Supporting your argument would be stopping there in the first place. Why would a normal motorist stop there if it wasn't something important ? As you say, nobody got in or out of the car.   You could win this at the adjudicators, but you'd be in for £130 if you lost.
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #6 on: »
Many thanks.

Are there any other technical elements on the PCN (mistakes etc.) on the basis of which this can be contested ?

e.g. I was reading the TFL section in the PCN Spreadsheet. There is a mention of - Red routes - no stopping in a bay cannot be enforced by CCTV, which is similar to this situation.

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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #7 on: »
TfL took London Tribunals to judicial review on the CCTV matter. Unfortunately they won, so CCTV can be used to enforce bays on a Red Route.
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #8 on: »
I have submitted an appeal today citing mitigating circumstances, will report back once I get a response.  Many thanks.
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #9 on: »
I think I might have been a bit more forceful.  There is a long standing principle that you cannot be penalised for circumstances beyond your control as a driver. However, it's not entirely clear from your original narrative whether the need to adjust your child's car seat belt was urgent enough to force a stop.
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #10 on: »
The narrative for the appeal I have added is as below. 

There was a malfunction with the seat belt which created a big distraction for the driver and hence there was a need to stop on the side of the road to investigate.  At no point did the driver step out of the car as you can see the engine and brake lights switched on throughout the period.  I also visited the car service centre next day to get the issue diagnosed and resolved. The contravention happened as the driver was alarmed by the issue with the car.  In light of the circumstances I would request you to exercise your discretion and cancel the penalty charge.  Yours faithfully.


I can get some paperwork from the garage if they ask for more evidence.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 01:21:16 pm by flash2005 »
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: flash2005 on November 20, 2023, 03:05:47 pm
Many thanks.

Are there any other technical elements on the PCN (mistakes etc.) on the basis of which this can be contested ?
Yes: firstly there is no designated parking place under the TRO, so the contravention cannot occur because the car cannot have been in a designated parking bay or place.

Secondly, the sign is not authorised by the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016, and TFL do not have a special authorisation from the Secretary of State, so it's not a traffic sign at all. It's an unlawful obstruction of the highway.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on November 22, 2023, 11:05:33 pm
Quote from: flash2005 on November 20, 2023, 03:05:47 pm
Many thanks.

Are there any other technical elements on the PCN (mistakes etc.) on the basis of which this can be contested ?
Yes: firstly there is no designated parking place under the TRO, so the contravention cannot occur because the car cannot have been in a designated parking bay or place.

Secondly, the sign is not authorised by the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016, and TFL do not have a special authorisation from the Secretary of State, so it's not a traffic sign at all. It's an unlawful obstruction of the highway.
Can this this appeal be done at the first stage or will it have to be done at the tribunal stage ?
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: flash2005 on November 23, 2023, 09:50:28 am
Can this this appeal be done at the first stage or will it have to be done at the tribunal stage ?
You've told us you made a representation already so you'll have to wait for the notice of rejection. Once you have that, I'm happy to sort out the tribunal appeal for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: TFL parked in a suspended bay - Commercial Road
« Reply #14 on: »
Today I got a letter from TFL saying that they have cancelled the PCN.  Many thanks for all the help on this to get this successful outcome.
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