Author Topic: Havering Council 52M Contravention  (Read 1050 times)

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Havering Council 52M Contravention
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Hello,

Like many others on this forum, I have received a 52M contravention code PCN from Havering Council. I was photographed and videoed stopping at the traffic light in the location attached with no other context shown. I think I can appeal but I'm unsure how to go about doing so as Havering do not allow you to pay the discount if rejected so I want it to go well. Any help is appreciated.

Location

The PCN says "failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle".

My letter is quite literally the same as the one shown in a previous post here

The only difference is that my charge is £160!

Again to reiterate, the video shows me appearing out of nowhere and stopping at the red light, before a bus obscures the footage. I think there are many things I can write to win the appeal, but I'm not sure how best effectively to say them. Any help is appreciated.

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Thank you for anyone who replies and helps, I really appreciate the advice.

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Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post up all sides of the PCN (redact only yr name & address - leave all else in) and the video.

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #2 on: »
Here is the link to the video

And the letter
« Last Edit: October 28, 2025, 05:11:48 pm by T D F »

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #3 on: »
The video shows you passing no signs at this location, and there are, indeed none, because they are 78 yards back at the junction of South Street with Atlantic Blvd and Victoria Road, assuming GSV of October 2024 (the latest view), is correct.
So the location on the PCN is incorrect. As Havering have decided, as they are a venal and rapacious council, to not re-offer discount when rejecting reps, you must now make a decision; pay discount now, or submit reps. If you submit reps they will reject them, like all councils do. But with no re-offer of discount, it is then a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs. On the other hand Havering have the fag of preparing an evidence pack, and also must pay the adjudication fee.

What we don't know is the current signage and where it is. Their video shows you not passing any restriction signs at that location so if there are none, then you should win at London Tribunals.

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #4 on: »
There's a mixed picture in appeals but a fair few allowed along the lines of this one.

----------

Case reference   2250041601
Appellant   xxxxx
Authority   London Borough of Havering
VRM   RV19LRK
   
PCN Details
PCN   HG61502304
Contravention date   19 Oct 2024
Contravention time   15:43:00
Contravention location   South Street / Eastern Road
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply prohibition on certain types vehicle
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   03 May 2025
Adjudicator   Jack Walsh
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons   Miss xxxx participated in the hearing of this appeal by video link. Her case was clearly set out in her notice of appeal, and was foreshadowed by her representations. Essentially, her case can be summarised in this way: there was no signage, or adequate signage, in place on the occasion in question informing motorists of a prohibition on motor vehicles in the location specified on the PCN. The location specified on the PCN is "South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1". That is not a particularly clear description of a location because the CCTV footage capturing the appellant's vehicle appears to show a single road and not two roads or a junction between them.
As will be seen, the enforcement authority (EA) has completely failed to counter, with evidence, Miss xxxxx's argument as to the signage.
There is, however, a far more fundamental problem. The traffic management order (TMO) that has been provided does not actually create any prohibition on motor vehicles on South Street, or Eastern Road, or indeed any other road. The TMO that creates prohibitions on motor vehicles on roads within its ambit is the London Borough of Havering (Traffic Movement and Speed Limit Regulations) (Consolidation) (Map Based) Order 2017, described as the "2017 Order". For some reason the EA has decided not to provide the 2017 Order. The TMO it did provide is merely an amending order; by its Schedule 1, it adds to the ambit of the 2017 Order the locations shown in a map which is referred to in that Schedule. The wording of Schedule 1 does not particularly make sense but, in any event, does not specify any locations. Nor does it contain a map.
The EA has completely failed to prove the existence of a prohibition, created by a TMO, on motor vehicles on "South St RM1/Eastern Rd RM1" (wherever that is).
That is the end of the matter. The appeal is allowed. The EA's case was completely hopeless and bound to fail because it did not provide to this tribunal the underlying legal basis for the alleged contravention.
I should also add that the EA's presentation of its evidence of signage was - particularly considering it was the very issue raised on the appeal- bizarre, unhelpful and ultimately inadequate. The EA did not provide photographs of signage which are firmly evidentially linked to the location shown in the CCTV footage, for example because they show that location in the same photograph, or are accompanied by a witness statement stating where the signs are in relation to the location of the alleged contravention. The EA chose to provide a photograph of a small bus station with some 'no motor vehicles' signs in front of it. There is a Google Streetview image of the same location, which appears to show Atlanta Boulevard. I have no idea where that bus station is in relation to the location of the appellant's vehicle. There do not appear to be any features of the road shown in the CCTV footage that can be seen in the EA's photographs. The evidence is wholly inadequate to prove that there were, in reasonable proximity to the location shown in the CCTV footage, 'no motor vehicles' signs. In fact, the photographs were provided in the case summary and at the bottom of the notice of rejection and could easily have been missed.
For either of those reasons the contravention is not proved and the appeal is allowed.

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #5 on: »
As Havering have decided, as they are a venal and rapacious council, to not re-offer discount when rejecting reps, you must now make a decision; pay discount now, or submit reps. If you submit reps they will reject them, like all councils do. But with no re-offer of discount, it is then a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs.

Thanks for the response. So no matter what I write in my appeal, I will lose?

The traffic management order (TMO) that has been provided does not actually create any prohibition on motor vehicles on South Street, or Eastern Road, or indeed any other road

What is bizarre is that many people, including myself have driven down that road to get to the car park nearby. When and why did they start issuing PCNs for going down a road with no clear restrictions?

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
Thanks for the response. So no matter what I write in my appeal, I will lose?
No, your reps are just not accepted by Havering who never accept any, but as the discount is not re-offered, you get the no-brainer opportunity to present your case at the adjudicators, (London Tribunals). Havering then have to prepare an evidence pack and pay the adjudication fee. Apparently their evidence packs are atrocious and one adjudicator recently excoriated them for producing rubbish.

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #7 on: »
Can anyone assist? I have challenged the PCN, they rejected it as expected, but I have not received any notice of rejection letter. I only received a charge certificate letter. On the tribunals website, they ask for a verification code that came with the notice of rejection letter but because I did not receive one there is no way for me to fill the form. What can I do now? The charge has increased to £240 which is ridiculous.


Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #9 on: »
You'll have to wait until the period for payment of the Charge Certificate ends, then be proactive, and phone the Traffic Enforcement Centre every 7-10 days to find out if the PCN has been registered. When it has been the council must send you an Order for Recovery and also the form to submit a Statutory Declaration. But you can download the form, and submit it without receiving the hardcopy OfR when TEC tell you it's registered.  As you have submitted reps and not received the rejection, TEC cancel the OfR and CC. The matter must then be passed to the adjudicators for a decision. The original PCN is not cancelled and can be enforced, but the adjudicator will decide.

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #10 on: »
Thank you John and Incandescent. I will do exactly as outlined. Hopefully will be good news for me

Re: Havering Council 52M Contravention
« Reply #11 on: »
Contact me when this is sorted.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r