Author Topic: PCN - 06, Havering  (Read 65 times)

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Potatoman87

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PCN - 06, Havering
« on: April 01, 2024, 07:47:45 pm »
Received a PCN for not displaying a valid ticket, while parked in a marked bay. I had to download the RingGo app, but had limited signal to do so, by the time it had downloaded I had returned to the vehicle, to find a ticket.

The space has 30 mins free parking, I just hadn’t input my reg in time.

Is it worth an appeal?









https://maps.app.goo.gl/YmpgHWhMT89wL5qQ8?g_st=ic
« Last Edit: April 01, 2024, 08:02:52 pm by cp8759 »

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cp8759

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2024, 08:05:57 pm »
@Potatoman87 where were you when you were buying the parking session?

In any case they've used the wrong contravention wording, as you cannot display a virtual ticket, see the recent decision in Lydia Russo v Plymouth City Council (PL00004-2401, 12 March 2024).

Of course the council will never accept that they've done anything wrong, so this will have to go to the tribunal to get overturned.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2024, 08:07:38 pm by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2024, 08:28:27 pm »
@Potatoman87 also please can we see a receipt of your parking session?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Potatoman87

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2024, 09:33:45 pm »
@Potatoman87 also please can we see a receipt of your parking session?



cp8759

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2024, 10:13:07 pm »
Well the CEO observed the car form 4:20 and the restriction ends at 5 pm. If you'd got a session at 4:20 it would have expired at 4:50, and owing to the statutory grace period no PCN could have been issued before 5 pm, by which time the restriction would have ended anyway. It can thus be taken that you derived no advantage in not obtaining a session earlier.

Still, the key point would appear to be that it is not possible to display a ticket as the council has not provided a facility for one to be provided. The traffic order is The Havering (Parking Places) (Map Based) (Consolidation) Order 2018 which is surprisingly vague as to what the requirements are when it comes to payment.

Here is a draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Havering,

When I first parked I had poor reception so I sought a WI-FI connection to initiate a ticketless session via RingGo, unfortunately I had to download and set up the app and this took a few minutes, I attach a screenshot of my payment receipt.

As no payment is required for the first 30 minutes, and the pargkin restrictions end in any event at 5 pm, you can see I have derived no advantage and the council has not lost any income.

Furthermore the allegation on the penalty charge notice is for failure to display, but this is essentially a meaningless allegation for a location at which it is not possible to obtain anything that can be displayed, as only ticketless options are available.

In light of the above I trust you will agree to cancel the penalty charge notice.

Yours faithfully,

Make sure to upload your payment receipt and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page. The council will almost certainly issue a fob-off rejection, but we have to go through the motions.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Potatoman87

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2024, 01:45:38 pm »
Thank you, I will give that a try!

Potatoman87

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2024, 11:53:00 am »
Received a response / fob off today. Frustrating but if they insist on going down this route….

What would next steps be please?

Incandescent

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2024, 02:44:05 pm »
The usual Fob-Off letter that we see so often on this forum !

The next step is to wait for the Notice to Owner, and submit a formal representation against it. Looking at cp8759's representation draft, I would say take them all the way, rather than just cough-up, but it's your decision.

cp8759

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Re: PCN - 06, Havering
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2024, 10:04:49 pm »
I would definitely wait for the notice to owner.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order