Author Topic: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01  (Read 3739 times)

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Parked the car on a single-yellow line around 19:35. There was no sign plate adjacent to the yellow line stating any restrictions. The location was not within a Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ), and no sign of which existed for that zone. The PCN was placed on the wind screen.

On 18/03/2024 I submitted an informal challenge. However, after almost three months from submitting the informal challenge, I received their "Notice of Rejection of Informal Challenge". Is taking that long to respond to my challenge acceptable?

I did provide them with photo evidence showing that there was neither a restriction sign for the yellow line nor a CPZ sign. Even their photo evidence did not show the same.

I hired the car from a rent company. Going to the NTO stage means the rent company is going to charge me £60 in admin fee.

I would very much appreciate it if you could assist me with this PCN.

As I am allowed only 4 files per post, please see below my informal challenge:

"Please note that on the day in question, I parked on a single yellow line, in the evening. I looked for a road sign showing any prescribed hours or restricted time for the single yellow line where I parked, but there was none. As a result, I was left with a legitimate expectation that the single yellow line did not have a restriction at the time of my parking. Please find attached photos of the location where I parked confirming this fact. Please can you cancel the PCN."

Thank you in anticipation.


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Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #1 on: »
Please read this and update your post accordingly
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Looking at their letter of rejection, the location is stated as "Anson Road (MA -Cpz), so it appears that you were parked in a CPZ.  However, you say you weren't so you really need to check with Brent using their website, which should have their CPZs in there somewhere.

Assuming you were in a CPZ,  means there would have been no signs by the yellow line, the yellow line restrictions are on the CPZ entry signs.

However, the real issue you have is that taking the matter further means the hire company will charge you £60 just for  admin in responding to a Notice to Owner.  So it is a matter of now paying £65 to Brent, or waiting for an NtO to turn up and paying the hire company £60 for the privilege. Having paid the hire company and got a Notice to Owner in your hand, you could submit representations.

The only other issue is inordinate delay. 3 months is far too long to respond to informal reps, although not actually unlawful, it is very bad practice by Brent.

Wait a bit for others to respond as they may see something I have missed.

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #2 on: »
Incandescent, thank you for your feedback.

This is the GSV location of Anson Road where I parked. It is clear that there is no CPZ entry sign at all:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/YREPV66zMxre32Nz7

The LA rejected my challenge without any supporting evidence.

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #3 on: »
Have a look on here: -
https://www.brent.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/where-you-can-park/controlled-parking-zones/cpz-map
There are definitely signs at the zone entrances I looked at, like here: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yfrMh71RaHnaq9hf8
and here
https://maps.app.goo.gl/rP11qxhoH69MbTTz8

So best thing is to tell us your route to the location you parked at.  If you can show that you did not pass a CPZ sign then you can submit reps on that basis.  HOwever, you've told us that just to get to the Notice to Owner stage, you have to pay the hire company £60, then you could have your reps rejected by the council. I think you have something called a dilemma !

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dilemma
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 09:55:32 pm by Incandescent »

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #4 on: »
Have a look on here: -
https://www.brent.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/where-you-can-park/controlled-parking-zones/cpz-map
There are definitely signs at the zone entrances I looked at, like here: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yfrMh71RaHnaq9hf8
and here
https://maps.app.goo.gl/rP11qxhoH69MbTTz8

So best thing is to tell us your route to the location you parked at.  If you can show that you did not pass a CPZ sign then you can submit reps on that basis. 

The CPZ sign in your third link is completely at the other end of Anson Road, which is quite a distance from where I parked, and is not part of my journey.

I drove from Willesden Green along Chichele Rd, then turning right at the traffic light into Anson Road, parking next to house number 46. There was no CPZ sign at the Entry.

If there was a CPZ sign applicable to the entry of the zone where I parked, why didn't the traffic warden upload a photo of it on the their website along with the car photos?



Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #5 on: »
HOwever, you've told us that just to get to the Notice to Owner stage, you have to pay the hire company £60, then you could have your reps rejected by the council. I think you have something called a dilemma !

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dilemma

I am hoping that with your help, I would win the appeal and get the PCN cancelled. This would encourage me to request a refund of the £60 as a good will gesture on the part of the hire company. This is what they told me over the phone.

Thank you for increasing my vocabulary!  :)

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #6 on: »
If you started at Willesden Green you were already in a CPZ.

In this area there are a large number of CPZs all together if you look at the Brent CPZ map. Hopefully, somebody on here can explain the sign guidance on where one CPZ butts up against another one. As far as I know, there should be signs at the boundaries between CPZs, but if the yellow line restrictions are the same, does there need to be a sign at the boundary ?

Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable will comment.

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #7 on: »
@mitaab can you please draw us a map showing how you got to that particular SYL in the first place?

We can't form a definitive view of the strength of your case without this information, and also without the traffic order (which I can get hold of).

To this end, please can you post the original PCN leaving the number plate and VRM visible, as per the guidance.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #8 on: »
@mitaab can you please draw us a map showing how you got to that particular SYL in the first place?

We can't form a definitive view of the strength of your case without this information, and also without the traffic order (which I can get hold of).

To this end, please can you post the original PCN leaving the number plate and VRM visible, as per the guidance.

Hi cp8759

This link shows the route of my journey:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/McZpVvyZUPgzAQEX8

I have misplaced the PCN. How do I get a copy of it?
Isn't the VRM the same as the number plate? Providing this information, wouldn't it reveal the name and address of the person?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #9 on: »
At your first left turn, you pass this sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ctFeijho1K44n2QN8
for CPZ 'G'
The back of the sign shows the "End of Zone" sign.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/doscfRfQGEaz5u5k7
If, while tootling along, you decide to turn off the main road into Strode Road, which is in another CPZ you see these signs.  Note the restricted times are different to the first one you passed.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/eH7BgAZ99WA6GWEX6
So the inference is that passing from one zone to another just requires an entry sign, there is no need for an exit sign as that is obvious.
And here, just before Park Avenue, are the CPZ entry signs for CPZ 'MW'
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6qWohtW22ixBx4af6
If you look on the back of the sign, you'll see the entry signs for the CPZ you've just left. However, tootling along you get to Walm Lane, (a right turn). If you turn the GSV view around, you'll see signs for entering CPZ 'MW'
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SEsH7qfNzY5Hmd4cA
So you would expect on the other side of these, a "Zone Ends" sign, or a sign for entering another CPZ.  But there is no sign.
A look at a parking bay sign on t he left, shortly after passing Walm Lane tells you you are in CPZ 'MA' but there is no CPZ entry sign.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MZuKz5inJLct7nxx5

So, assuming GSV October 2022 is still correct, you have an appeal argument that you did not pass a CPZ entry sign for the zone shown on your PCN. Each CPZ can have different restricted times as shown above, so without passing a sign, how could you determine the restricted hours ?



Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #10 on: »


Incandescent, great analysis. Quite impressive.

Shall I get you recent photos of all the CPZ signs, that you made reference to, in your post?

I have added another word to my vocabulary, "tootling".  :)


Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #11 on: »



Incandescent, great analysis. Quite impressive.

Shall I get you recent photos of all the CPZ signs, that you made reference to, in your post?

I have added another word to my vocabulary, "tootling".  :)
The main thing is that GSV 2022, shows no entry signs for CPZ 'MA' as ypu drive along that road, but is this the case in 2024 ? So yes, take some photos to use if you want to take the matter further. Of course if in 2024, the signs missing in 2022 are now there, your case collapses.

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #12 on: »



Incandescent, great analysis. Quite impressive.

Shall I get you recent photos of all the CPZ signs, that you made reference to, in your post?

I have added another word to my vocabulary, "tootling".  :)
The main thing is that GSV 2022, shows no entry signs for CPZ 'MA' as ypu drive along that road, but is this the case in 2024 ? So yes, take some photos to use if you want to take the matter further. Of course if in 2024, the signs missing in 2022 are now there, your case collapses.

Which specific zone entries do you want photos for?

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #13 on: »
You need current signage at this cross roads.

There are no signs on the GSV view for entry to CPZ 'MA'

Re: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - Code 01
« Reply #14 on: »
Incandescent has done the hard work, but this could all be academic unless your hire company transfers liability to you.

IMO, your primary task is to get them onside* otherwise you'll get a bill for £130/£190 or more**.


*- discussing on the phone is less than concrete. You should write. (
by all means phone and confirm in writing, but I recommend you don't just phone).

**- the NTO would not offer the discount, so if they paid it the charge would be 130. Similarly, you have not said whether the £60 is applied whether they pay or seek to transfer liability, and as it's a charge for a service it's probably subject to VAT, so your total could be ££202.

As regards the contravention, you should look at this, the council's CPZ map.

https://democracy.brent.gov.uk/documents/s45982/10%20-%20parking_management_review_appendix_b.pdf


IMO, your approach should be that you were travelling northwards along Walm Road and apparently entered zone MA north of its junction with Melrose when you entered Chichele Road prior to turning right into Anson. A copy of the council's CPZ map is enclosed showing that zone MA commences at this point.
On the day of the contravention (and now..because you'll take photos) there wasn't a CPZ sign alerting motorists to this significant change in controls. And the change is significant because the restricted hours of zone MA are different to those in zone MW(the zone you left and the last CPZ sign which you saw) being Mon-Sat 10-9pm and 8am-6.30pm respectively for this MA zone - the authority will be aware that there are 2 different restrictions in zone MA, the other being 10am-3pm Mon-Fri.

..as a basis...

But IMO get the hire company onside first.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2024, 02:06:42 pm by H C Andersen »