Author Topic: Notice of rejection on the old adress  (Read 608 times)

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Mishek

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Notice of rejection on the old adress
« on: November 07, 2023, 08:33:56 pm »
The story is a bit long but I need to know fast if I can appeal after receiving charge certificate for the reason being : I have sent an appeal for the multiple ntos received ( there was couple of them, one on the new address and 3 on my old adress). I have included my adress (new one) in the appeal and expect to get an email or getting it on the new address. To my suprise I'll got a charge cerficate on the new address. So I checked my old adress where I don't live anymore for any mail and there it is. a notice of rejection. I will need to pay 600 for parking in the resident zone. Can I make a statutory declaration or something as I didn't received o. My current address even though it's changed in v5c and in the driving licence (one of the ntos for the same penalty came to my new address). If not I will need to sell my car to pay the parking tickets. Looking for fast advice :/ please

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Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2023, 09:17:28 pm »
I have parked in the resident zone without knowing and left the car there as I was abroad I have moved into new address in the same time. When I picked up the car there was no pcn's on my window but after changing adress on v5c and driving licence I received NtO on my new address. I decided to check my old adress for any more ntos. I found three of them for the same thing. I've decided to appeal but didn't get response. I've received a charge certificate on my new address I've checked the old adress and there it was an notice of rejection. I have included my new address on the appeal and it was changed on the v5c. Can I appeal as I didn't received the notice of rejection on the correct address ? // Maybe this way

Neil B

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2023, 10:11:02 pm »
You haven't given us any dates or shown any documents?

Incandescent

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2023, 10:49:51 pm »
+1
No meaningful advice can be given without sight of documents. You haven't mentioned any PCNs, the initial documents, only Notices to Owners.  This indicates that the contraventions are for parking.  Once a PCN is served to driver or vehicle at the roadside, and not response is received, the council then request the name and address of the registered keeper from DVLA. They then send a Notice to Owner for that name and address. If you responded on-line and didn't advise of a new address, the response goes to the address on the NtO.

If you have the relevant NtOs and the date for responding has not been reached, you can submit representations.  FOr those that are beyond that date, you'll need to wait for the Order for Recovery that comes after the Charge Certificate, one for each PCN.  You can then submit a Witness Statement that you did not receive the NtOs. OK, you received them eventually, but too late to do anything about them so "didn't receive them".

Anyway, we need to see the documents you have received. HOw many PCNs in total ? List them all with what has happened, (NtO issued, CC issued etc).

Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2023, 10:41:15 am »
All together it was 5 pcn's. One of them I found on the window and just paid straight away, then I received 4 ntos all together. One on my current address and 3 of them on the old adress. All of them are on the CC at the moment but one of them has been cancelled after the appeal.

* I m trying to attach photos of the documents although it's so many of them... It gives me a headache.  The pictures are too big. Errors occured. I will attach them later one when I get a hang of my laptop *


Penalty number FR60053578 I have not appealed for cause I didn't find it when I picked the mail.
Here's my appeal
"
*My name*

*This is where my current address was*



, London



Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to appeal against the multiple Notice to Owner (NtO) that I have received for parking in a permit only zone. The penalty charge notice numbers are: FR60217890, FR60053170, FR60053228. I did not receive the original Penalty Charge Notices (PCN) that were issued, and therefore I was not aware of the charges or the deadline for payment. This resulted in the NtO being sent to me, which increased the amount due.

I would like to request that you cancel the NtO and revert to the original PCN amount, as I did not have a fair chance to pay or challenge the charges. I would also like to contest the validity of the PCN, as there are no signs marking the permit only zone when driving from Buxton Drive into The Forest. I was unaware of such a restriction and there was no indication that I was entering a controlled parking zone.

Additionally, I did not find any PCN on my car window when I returned to it, which suggests that they were either not issued or removed by someone else. Therefore, I had no way of knowing that I had committed a parking offence until I received the NtO.

I have attached some photos of the location where I parked and the entrance to The Forest from Buxton Drive, showing the lack of signage. I hope you will consider my appeal and cancel the charges. Please let me know the outcome of your decision as soon as possible.

Thank you for your attention and cooperation.

Yours faithfully,



"


What I'm thinking is that. They have my current address cause the last of the ntos came to my current address and I've put the address also in the head of the appeal. I was thinking I will get an email reply. But they've send mail to my old adress.

I will update with the dates of the pcn's,ntos, cc received.

So at the moment I'm dealing with cc for FR60217890: NtO received 11/09/23 on the current adress ,FR60053170:  NtO received on the old adress on 29/08/23, FR60053578 : NtO received 31/08/23 on the old adress

Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2023, 10:45:21 am »
Notice of rejection

Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2023, 10:46:00 am »
Don't what this is but hey cancelled one of the pcns

Incandescent

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2023, 11:28:39 am »
Don't what this is but hey cancelled one of the pcns
It means they've cancelled one of your PCNs, so you can cross that one off your list. The text saying they may not cancel others is standard boiler-plate text that appears in almost all letters like this. It covers their arses basically.

Pastmybest

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2023, 11:39:58 am »
I can't follow this thread

We need to see every document you have you say you want to appeal against a CC well from what i see at the moment you can't

help us to help you

Incandescent

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2023, 12:19:13 pm »
I can't follow this thread

We need to see every document you have you say you want to appeal against a CC well from what i see at the moment you can't

help us to help you
+1
No documents = incomplete advice

cp8759

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2023, 11:06:08 pm »
@Mishek the simple answer is you are entitled to make a witness statement against all the orders for recovery: the legal test is whether the document was received by you, and if it wasn't received then it wasn't received.

For the ones where you gave your new address and they ignored it, there is also a procedural impropriety that can win the substantive appeal, see Natalia Skorosz v London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (2190347315, 12 October 2019).

For now I suggest you draw up a table listing all the PCNs, what stage they're at now, where the NTO went, where the NoR went and so on.

Alternatively, dump all the documents into a google drive or dropbox folder and I'll do that for you.

Do not pay any of these.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2023, 06:22:37 pm »
Hey @cp8759

Thank you, your post it's super helpful.



FR60217890: NtO received 11/09/23 on the new adress ,FR60053170:  NtO received on the old adress on 29/08/23, FR60053578 : NtO received 31/08/23 on the old adress

FR60053228 has been cancelled after my appeal.

I've just received order for recovery for FR60217890. That's the one original PCN sent correctly on my new address, but notice of rejection sent to my old adress, so I'm filling TE9 that I didn't receive the notice of rejection.
The other 2 PCN are stil on charge certificate state as I'm checking on Waltham forest website and it's 195 for those 2.  I cannot check remotely for my mail at the old one.

Now I'm wondering what will happen after my TE9 form will be sent.

I will sent TE9 for the other two when I'll get the order of recovery for them too. I live quite far from the old adress so I'm checking on Waltham forest website if the amount to be paid has changed.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 08:10:21 pm by cp8759 »

cp8759

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2023, 08:11:39 pm »
Make sure to send form TE9 by email to tec@justice.gov.uk as you don't want to be relying on the post, certainly not this time of year. You don't need to use the paper form, you can download the PDF version of form TE9 here and fill it in on your computer, the court will accept a typed signature.

Once it's been processed the amount on the council website will drop back down to 130 and the council will refer it to the tribunal, as soon as that happens let us know.

Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2023, 12:29:34 am »
Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

Yes.


I have uploaded all the documents (except order for recovery) I posses onto google drive :link if u want to have a look on it.

There might be some missing as I was cleaning and they all look the same. I think I mixed some of them with a spam and threw it away.

I've hidden the address (just left the beginning of the postcode "HP1" for the old address and "London" for the new one) as it's on public drive.

Awaiting reply. Thanks !
« Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 12:32:44 am by Mishek »

Mishek

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Re: Notice of rejection on the old adress
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2023, 05:41:47 pm »
@cp8759

Or anyone interested.

It took me a while, but I've sent the email with the TE9 form today for the (FR60217890).

In the Email I've just mentioned that I have attached the form as required.

The other PCN's on the Waltham Forest website are still on 195 so I'm assuming order for recovery didn't come onto my old address yet I will sent the TE9 forms as soon as that happens.

All right so as u said @cp8759, I'll update you when it have been processed.