Author Topic: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)  (Read 1484 times)

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Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
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Dear all, first post here.  Please can I seek you advice.  I have until Tue 1 Oct to make use of the 14 day discount / informal appeal.

I have received a bus lane camera PCN.  The location is exactly the same as in this previous case: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/34j-being-in-a-bus-lane-romford-road-e12-newham/

PCN is here:



I would like to confirm that on Manor Park Road, as you approach Romford Road, there is no advance Bus Lane Warning Sign.  As you will note from the CCTV pictures and video - my car can be seen to be moving out of the Bus Lane.


I would like to add my observation of the blue bus lane sign on.  Please see pictures.  Rather than facing straight against the traffic, the sign is facing some 45 degree towards the otherside of the road.  This means those arriving and turning left from Manor Park Road, do not see this sign properly.





Thank you in advance.

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Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #1 on: »
PCN is here:

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #2 on: »
Sorry, trying again:

PCN link here -
Image Parking-PCN hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co


Bus Lane Sign images:
Image Screenshot-2024-09-26-22-37-41 hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co

Image Screenshot-2024-09-26-22-37-04 hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co

Image Screenshot-2024-09-26-22-35-59 hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co

Image Screenshot-2024-09-26-22-33-01 hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #3 on: »
Please download and put here the video, which is the evidence.
Also a GSV link to the location. Here?
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl

It looks as if Google has not been here for a very long time.

For convenience, here is the PCN


Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #4 on: »


Hello, I'm having trouble with the video download and input here - working to find solution. 

If it is not too inconvient, please can you kindly view here:

Newham PCN link to video and images:

PCN:PN75156509

Vehicle Reg: RO22 WVT

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #5 on: »
So if the circumstances are the same use this argument:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/34j-being-in-a-bus-lane-romford-road-e12-newham/msg33369/#msg33369

May to September is quite a long time to remember the circumstances. Unfortunately, there is no time limit to serve a PCN in this legislation.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2024, 11:05:02 am by Hippocrates »
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #6 on: »

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you very much @Hippocrates, I will follow this route.  I do note that Newham had rejected this appeal however will see if we have a different outcome.

Thank you very much @stamfordman for the video upload - very grateful. 

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #8 on: »
They will reject at every stage. But, when we get them to the Tribunal, it is a different ball game. They MUST attend when required to do so and their paperwork MUST be faultless. And they will have to explain why there is no warning sign as you turn left.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2024, 01:27:29 pm by Hippocrates »
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi everyone,

Is this OK please, to send off within the first 14 day period, copied from CS2509 example as per Hippocrates.  It's an online submission, rather than a letter, hence just copied the key points.  Should I include amention of the fact that the blue bus lane sign is not facing straight but rather 45 degree towards the opposite side of the road?


I make the following challenge:

1. The alleged contravention did not occur as there was no warning signage of a bus lane at the junction. I rely upon:
   
Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter Three:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

9.3.16.  The sign to diagram 962 is most likely to be used where a nearside bus lane is on the
same side of the major road as the side road; in this case the arrow will point to the left.

2. I also consider the white line to be faint and not fit for purpose.

3. It can be clearly seen in the CCTV recording that the vehicle pulls back out from the Bus Lane shortly after entry.

4. I put you to strict proof that the camera used is approved. If you cannot provide this, the evidence is inadmissible.

In light of the above, please cancel the said PCN.


Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #10 on: »
Fine.
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi Hippocrates,

Just to let you know, when I enter the PCN and VRN number to start the informal appeal @
Find out how to challenge a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). Learn the steps to submit a representation, valid reasons for cancellation, response timelines, and what happens after a decision is made.
Newham Council · newham.gov.uk
, I receive a 'representation denied' page, as per screenshot in link below.

Reprentation denied message:
Image Screenshot-2024-09-30-09-39-48 hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co


I can in the meantime submit an appeal via the post.  I note Newham have a Penalty Charge Enquiry Form -
newham-self.achieveservice.com
, unsire if its worth logging the issue there.

Many thanks

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote
Reprentation denied message:
https://ibb.co/W3LzHqv

leads to a blank page?

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #13 on: »
That's correct - exactly as per the screenshot - no further messages other that the Newham Logo, and representation denied note at the browser tab at the top.

Re: Newham, 34j - being in a bus lane (camera enforcement)
« Reply #14 on: »
Hi Hippocrates and all,

I'm pleased to feed back that the PCN has been cancelled.  Please see letter via link below. 

Image PCN-decision hosted on ImgBB
ImgBB · ibb.co


Thank you very much for your time and advice.