Author Topic: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road  (Read 8712 times)

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Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
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Was parked here and missed the parking suspension signs (as I think they removed the old ones and put new ones at same time - they have a habit of not removing old ones for weeks). Is there anything that could help me get out of the fine because of any irregularity by the council on signage or the PCN itself? Appreciate it's totally my fault.

I am the registered keeper.









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Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #1 on: »
one point to flag is the council image is of the post ahead of where my car was parked.. just after the disabled bay

there is another post very close behind to where my car was parked (which they didn't take a photo of) in case it makes a difference (although this one had the same sign too)

Not sure if this makes any diference as I would have thought they should have taken a photo of the post behind my car since the disabled bay creates a break

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5107315,0.0142462,3a,75y,127.82h,62.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3FuVsexc9eTCdAyIWIJEfg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D27.654862995268488%26panoid%3D3FuVsexc9eTCdAyIWIJEfg%26yaw%3D127.8162581140721!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkyOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
« Last Edit: October 01, 2025, 12:33:14 pm by taffer87 »

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #2 on: »
It is the wrong contravention, it should be for parking in a suspended bay. We can deny the penalty on that simple basis. Loading is also banned so if you were in a restricted street it should have been a code 02 pcn in any event.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #3 on: »
So should I write a very simple challenge saying that?

Do I need to mention the council photo is not of the sign post in the bays I was parked in as I was parked on the other side of the disabled bay so that signage is not relevant too?

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #4 on: »
I wouldn't complicate things
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks so will submit this if you agree.

"Dear Sir/Madam

The PCN contravention code of 01 is incorrect and as such the PCN should be cancelled and is a nullity.

Code 02 should have been used as per the imgages in the council website Loading was also restricted.

Please can you confirm cancellation of the PCN

Regards"
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #6 on: »
No, the point is they should have used a code 21 bay suspension for this routine one day job. 

And if they insist on 01, it should be 02.

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #7 on: »
Thanks so amended below for comments please


"Dear Sir/Madam

The PCN contravention code of 01 is incorrect and as such the PCN should be cancelled and is a nullity.

Code 21 should have been used as the bay in question was allegedly suspended.

However, if the council insist on using the restricted street contravention (which is not the case as only some bays were apparently suspended), then  code 02 should have been used as per the images in the council website Loading was also restricted.

Please can you confirm cancellation of the PCN

Regards"

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #8 on: »
Hi all if possible would like to submit today so any comments appreciated. Thank you

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #9 on: »
Any trees works took place? this case from yesterday...

-------


Case reference   2250219259
Appellant   xxxxxxx
Authority   London Borough of Newham
VRM   BG66OGB
PCN Details
PCN   PN22154287
Contravention date   31 Mar 2025
Contravention time   09:25:00
Contravention location   Lincoln Road
Penalty amount   N/A
Contravention   Parked restricted street during prescribed hours
Referral date   -
Decision Date   02 Oct 2025
Adjudicator   Edward Houghton
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and refund forthwith the penalty charge and the release fees paid.

Reasons   

I adjourned this case for the following reason:-

“In view of the Appellant’s evidence the Council is asked to provide evidence that the works in question were actually in progress.

The Appellant is asked to clarify on what basis his father believed he was entitled to park in the bay without apparently checking the sign (in which case he could not have failed to see the yellow suspension sign)”

The Appellant has responded but no further evidence has been received from the Council.

The Appellant states in his appeal that “It’s worth noting that in our area, suspension signs are often placed with claims of scheduled tree works, yet on many occasions-including this one-no work actually occurs.”. There is no sign of any works being carried out in the CEO’s photographs, and the Council has been unable to provide any evidence ( which one would have thought to be easily obtainable) as to when if at all any such works took place.

Direction 6 Part 2 Traffic Signs General Directions 2016 provides as follows:-

“6.-(1) Paragraph (2) applies to a sign placed for conveying to traffic a warning, information, requirement, restriction or prohibition of a temporary nature.

(2) The sign must not remain in place for longer than it is needed.”


The sign in question in this case is clearly indicates a prohibition of a temporary nature,. and it seems to me on the evidence that the balance of probabilities is that it was in breach of this prohibition. In the circumstances it is unnecessary to consider issues of clarity and the Appeal must be allowed

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #10 on: »
Any trees works took place? this case from yesterday...

-------


Case reference 2250219259
Appellant xxxxxxx
Authority London Borough of Newham
VRM BG66OGB
PCN Details
PCN PN22154287
Contravention date 31 Mar 2025
Contravention time 09:25:00
Contravention location Lincoln Road
Penalty amount N/A
Contravention Parked restricted street during prescribed hours
Referral date -
Decision Date 02 Oct 2025
Adjudicator Edward Houghton
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and refund forthwith the penalty charge and the release fees paid.

Reasons

I adjourned this case for the following reason:-

“In view of the Appellant’s evidence the Council is asked to provide evidence that the works in question were actually in progress.

The Appellant is asked to clarify on what basis his father believed he was entitled to park in the bay without apparently checking the sign (in which case he could not have failed to see the yellow suspension sign)”

The Appellant has responded but no further evidence has been received from the Council.

The Appellant states in his appeal that “It’s worth noting that in our area, suspension signs are often placed with claims of scheduled tree works, yet on many occasions-including this one-no work actually occurs.”. There is no sign of any works being carried out in the CEO’s photographs, and the Council has been unable to provide any evidence ( which one would have thought to be easily obtainable) as to when if at all any such works took place.

Direction 6 Part 2 Traffic Signs General Directions 2016 provides as follows:-

“6.-(1) Paragraph (2) applies to a sign placed for conveying to traffic a warning, information, requirement, restriction or prohibition of a temporary nature.

(2) The sign must not remain in place for longer than it is needed.”


The sign in question in this case is clearly indicates a prohibition of a temporary nature,. and it seems to me on the evidence that the balance of probabilities is that it was in breach of this prohibition. In the circumstances it is unnecessary to consider issues of clarity and the Appeal must be allowed

unfortunately yes some tree works took place later in day

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #11 on: »
OP, only just seen this.

With respect, IMO the argument re wrong contravention is itself wrong..but see below.

As far as can be seen, the restriction was imposed under a Temp Traffic Order, s14 RTRA refers.


7)An order or notice made or issued under this section may—

(a)suspend any statutory provision to which this subsection applies; or

(b)for either of the reasons or for the purpose mentioned in subsection (1) above suspend any such provision without imposing any such restriction or prohibition as is mentioned in subsection (1) or (2) above.

(8)Subsection (7) above applies to—

(a)any statutory provision of a description which could have been contained in an order or notice under this section;

(b)an order under section 32(1)(b), 35, 45, 46 or 49 of this Act or any such order as is mentioned in paragraph 11(1) of Schedule 10 to this Act


A TTO may suspend the application of any s45 TMO which designated the parking place and substitute a different restriction, in this case no waiting. The council could have chosen to simply suspend the parking place but chose to go the TTO route, for reasons which are probably explained within the order which tantalisingly is not in any of the photos albeit that it is key. At present there's no order in evidence, so IMO you could argue that the order did not apply to where you were parked i.e. it is the order which creates the restriction, not the words on a sign, and without that order being in evidence you challenge that the restriction applied and therefore that the contravention took place. If the authority reject these representations then they must produce a copy of the order relied upon with any response. 

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #12 on: »
OP, only just seen this.

With respect, IMO the argument re wrong contravention is itself wrong..but see below.

As far as can be seen, the restriction was imposed under a Temp Traffic Order, s14 RTRA refers.


7)An order or notice made or issued under this section may—

(a)suspend any statutory provision to which this subsection applies; or

(b)for either of the reasons or for the purpose mentioned in subsection (1) above suspend any such provision without imposing any such restriction or prohibition as is mentioned in subsection (1) or (2) above.

(8)Subsection (7) above applies to—

(a)any statutory provision of a description which could have been contained in an order or notice under this section;

(b)an order under section 32(1)(b), 35, 45, 46 or 49 of this Act or any such order as is mentioned in paragraph 11(1) of Schedule 10 to this Act


A TTO may suspend the application of any s45 TMO which designated the parking place and substitute a different restriction, in this case no waiting. The council could have chosen to simply suspend the parking place but chose to go the TTO route, for reasons which are probably explained within the order which tantalisingly is not in any of the photos albeit that it is key. At present there's no order in evidence, so IMO you could argue that the order did not apply to where you were parked i.e. it is the order which creates the restriction, not the words on a sign, and without that order being in evidence you challenge that the restriction applied and therefore that the contravention took place. If the authority reject these representations then they must produce a copy of the order relied upon with any response.

Thanks is it also then important to mention that the signpost council include in evidence is after a disabled pay so not relevant for where the car was parked (whihc was close to another lamp post - whose photos are not in evidence)

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #13 on: »
As long as the signs are present and two of them 'book-end' the suspended area(pl note that the standard is 'on or near') then frankly IMO they could put them on every tree, post or whatever in the street. Their duty is to convey the restriction. If you were parked within the area specified and if there was such a sign ahead of you and behind(behind is more fundamental because you are deemed to have passed this whereas what lies ahead hasn't been seen) then IMO you are within the area specified on the written parts of the signs. You seem to acknowledge that there were signs ahead of and behind you, is this correct?

But what did the order itself provide as regards the restriction and how this was to be signed. The RTRA makes provision for regs to be made dealing with TTOs, and here they are:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/schedule/made

Part III of the Schedule deals with 'traffic signs'. I think that what's been used would satisfy an adjudicator.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2025, 01:53:18 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Newham 01a - tempoary parking suspension - Tarling Road
« Reply #14 on: »
As long as the signs are present and two of them 'book-end' the suspended area(pl note that the standard is 'on or near') then frankly IMO they could put them on every tree, post or whatever in the street. Their duty is to convey the restriction. If you were parked within the area specified and if there was such a sign ahead of you and behind(behind is more fundamental because you are deemed to have passed this whereas what lies ahead hasn't been seen) then IMO you are within the area specified on the written parts of the signs. You seem to acknowledge that there were signs ahead of and behind you, is this correct?

But what did the order itself provide as regards the restriction and how this was to be signed. The RTRA makes provision for regs to be made dealing with TTOs, and here they are:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/schedule/made

Part III of the Schedule deals with 'traffic signs'. I think that what's been used would satisfy an adjudicator.

Thanks my point was more that the council should be required to show signage in the post that is relevant to me (not a post further ahead which would be considered a completely different parking area as there was a disabled bay in the middle).

Re: your eaelier post what if the council then produces the "order" that is not in evidence? Will they only be required to produce this in Tribunal stage when I will have the full penalty to pay if they do produce it. Sorry its all very technical so I am not understanding it fully.

Thank you and everyone for the continued help