3. Need advise on PCN
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Need advise on PCN
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Hi,

I have received a parking ticket while parking on suspended parking for two cars which I appealed as there was no signage next to parking space, it was one long bay for many cars and they placed suspension sign in the middle of whole parking bay on lamp post (see picture) whereas in my opinion they should have put up this sign next to suspended two car space . I have appealed on these grounds but they refused the appeal and now I have an option to pay discounted amount or wait for this to raise to full amount then I get an option to take it further.
It was Sunday evening, I normally go there for dinner and I know there are no restrictions on Sundays.
Please advise shall I pay the discounted amount while I can or take it further. I have attached pictures and letter I received if that any help.


Council name: Tower Hamlets
Location: New Road, Whitechapel
Contravention Code: 21
Car: Grey Toyota Prius (GD07FLH)
PCN Number: TT58121725

Street View: https://maps.app.goo.gl/3wuQqrYVYPysQc686





« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 09:09:36 am by HBaig »
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
Please read this and update your post accordingly. In particular, the PCN all sides, and a GSV link to the exact location where you parked, Please indicate where the car was.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Their suspension sign was on the same pole as the parking bay sign, so has been correctly sited, unless, of course, the bay has more than one parking conditions sign.
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 25, 2025, 12:37:49 am
Please read this and update your post accordingly. In particular, the PCN all sides, and a GSV link to the exact location where you parked, Please indicate where the car was.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Their suspension sign was on the same pole as the parking bay sign, so has been correctly sited, unless, of course, the bay has more than one parking conditions sign.

Hi, Thanks for your reply - I have updated my post accordingly.
Regards
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
There is only one sign for the whole bay, and the suspension sign has been placed just below this sign on the same pole. Problem is the sign specifies 2 spaces, yet the bay is not divided into individual spaces. Was there anything else put in the bay to indicate which spaces were suspended, like cones or barriers ? Their letter refers to "yellow markings" on the "floor".  Clearly the person who wrote this letter only has a limited vocabulary, because floors are normally in buildings !

So, were there any "yellow markings on the floor" ? The sign doesn't refer to any "yellow markings".

If it were me, I'd take take them all the way on inadequate signage of the suspension. However, it is your decision, as you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty. This is now councils get away with inadequate signing; they just refuse all informal reps thus forcing people to either cough-up, which >95% do, or appeal the matter at the adjudicator
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
Sunday so permit bay not in force.

There is nothing in the council pics that shows where this 2 car space is and there are no separate vehicle bays in the overall business permit bay.

Where are these yellow markings - which are not mentioned on the suspension sign -  and how are you supposed to relate them to a sign? Usual practice would be to say it's outside a house/building number but I guess it's the building works covering an entrance and of course no work was going on on Sunday - which is another point.

You were parked at least one vehicle way from the sign and a reasoanble interpretation is a bay equivalent on either side of the sign in my view.


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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 25, 2025, 10:23:11 am
There is only one sign for the whole bay, and the suspension sign has been placed just below this sign on the same pole. Problem is the sign specifies 2 spaces, yet the bay is not divided into individual spaces. Was there anything else put in the bay to indicate which spaces were suspended, like cones or barriers ? Their letter refers to "yellow markings" on the "floor".  Clearly the person who wrote this letter only has a limited vocabulary, because floors are normally in buildings !

So, were there any "yellow markings on the floor" ? The sign doesn't refer to any "yellow markings".

If it were me, I'd take take them all the way on inadequate signage of the suspension. However, it is your decision, as you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty. This is now councils get away with inadequate signing; they just refuse all informal reps thus forcing people to either cough-up, which >95% do, or appeal the matter at the adjudicator

Thank you for your response. There were no markings on the road or footpath, which was my main point. How was I supposed to know which parking spaces were suspended? If the sign had been placed on the construction site's brown wall, I would have accepted the PCN. Additionally, since it was a Sunday, I assumed parking restrictions weren't in effect, as I regularly park on this road. I usually pay fines when I park incorrectly, but in this case, I feel i got this one wrong.
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
Wait for the Notice to Owner and I will write a formal representation for you. The signage looks inadequate to me and the CEO has not got a single photo showing the car and the sign in the same shot.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 25, 2025, 08:53:49 pm
Wait for the Notice to Owner and I will write a formal representation for you. The signage looks inadequate to me and the CEO has not got a single photo showing the car and the sign in the same shot.

Thank you and all other members for the support.
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 25, 2025, 08:53:49 pm
Wait for the Notice to Owner and I will write a formal representation for you. The signage looks inadequate to me and the CEO has not got a single photo showing the car and the sign in the same shot.

The second shot I posted does show the car and the suspension sign in the background but I agree it's not adequate.
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
Parking place situated on west side of New Road north of its junction with Fieldgate St. It measures approx. 35 metres.

The average length of a car is in the range 4.3-4.5m (RAC estimates) and the bay is not internally divided. It therefore follows that up to 8 vehicles could be accommodated at the same time.

The suspension sign refers to '2 car spaces' which, without further indication, is vague in the extreme. It certainly does not meet the council's mandatory duty to provide adequate information regarding restrictions.

I note the council's reference to 'yellow markings on the floor' in respect of which I would comment as follows:

1. No such markings or indicators were in situ and none is evidenced in the council's photos;
2. Even if such indicators did exist, it falls to the council to state their purpose in the suspension notice itself. No such reference is included.


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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
Morning All,

It been a while since I received this PCN which I refused to pay, I have been waiting for notice to owner since but it hasn't arrived so I went to check on council website if my PCN is still active and they have put the amount up to £130 so its still going on.

What should I do now keep waiting for contact them ?

Regards
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
Are you the registered keeper and are the name and address current on the V5C logbook.
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on March 26, 2025, 04:40:43 pm
Are you the registered keeper and are the name and address current on the V5C logbook.

Hi,

Yes I am registered keeper and my current address is on my logbook.

Regards
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
As their response stated, the penalty reverted to its statutory amount once their extended discount period ended. It's been £130 since the beginning of Feb.

The NTO is merely the means by which they demand payment, it doesn't trigger the penalty level in itself.
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Re: Need advise on PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on March 27, 2025, 10:06:07 am
As their response stated, the penalty reverted to its statutory amount once their extended discount period ended. It's been £130 since the beginning of Feb.

The NTO is merely the means by which they demand payment, it doesn't trigger the penalty level in itself.


Thanks for your reply, NTO would also means that they will offer to write another formal representation as above suggested ?
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