3. 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
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52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
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Hi, I wonder if you can help me?. I want to know whether it is worth submitting a Representation?. I received today from LB H&F a PCN Number HZ96809725. My Vehicle Reg is LM66UOK.You can view the images at www.lbhf.gov.uk/pcnimages. In my defence/grounds for representations, I feel there was no contravention, since the sign when entering the road states "Controlled Zone V Mon-Fri 9am-5pm". The alleged contravention was on 24/01/2026 at 14.18, which was a Saturday. Furthermore, I found this: https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/news/2026/01/trial-make-wormholt-safer-and-quieter
It says "A new neighbourhood improvement trial in the Wormholt area is being enforced with PCN fines from 5 January. It will continue to cut congestion and pollution. Out-of-borough motorists have received warning notices about the scheme since 5 November."
I assume I am one of the out of Borough motorists? ; but there is no signage to this effect.
What is your opinion please?, thanking you.
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote from: cmmanage on February 03, 2026, 10:55:51 pm
I feel there was no contravention, since the sign when entering the road states "Controlled Zone V Mon-Fri 9am-5pm". The alleged contravention was on 24/01/2026 at 14.18, which was a Saturday. Furthermore, I found this: https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/news/2026/01/trial-make-wormholt-safer-and-quieter
It says "A new neighbourhood improvement trial in the Wormholt area is being enforced with PCN fines from 5 January. It will continue to cut congestion and pollution. Out-of-borough motorists have received warning notices about the scheme since 5 November."
I assume I am one of the out of Borough motorists? ; but there is no signage to this effect.
You can read the (current) signage on the video - it's no motor vehicles at any time, except taxis and permit holders.
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #2 on: »
As said by 'davidmcn', the video shows you passing two prominent "Flying Motorbike" signs, with a qualifier sign below that allows taxis and permit holders to pass. These signs mean No Entry for motorvehicles. So where is this sign saying "Controlled Zone V Mon-Fri 9am-5pm" ?  It sounds like another, separate CPZ entry sign which is irrelevant.

Anyway, for full advice, please read this and update your thread accordingly:-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #3 on: »
This shows the previous sign: - is this worth appealing?
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5103759,-0.2462295,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sY7MhcXMbCA1tgO_tlB2BNQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3DY7MhcXMbCA1tgO_tlB2BNQ%26yaw%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDIwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Furthermore, the article says:
We will be installing monitoring-only cameras on Old Oak Road, Bloemfontein Road and Ellerslie Road.

This will allow us to monitor any changes in traffic volumes and driver behaviour. These cameras will not issue fines. They'll collect data to help us understand traffic patterns during the trial.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2026, 08:47:42 am by cmmanage »
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #4 on: »
That GSV view is 2018, so well out-of-date. The video shows you turning here and driving past the new "Flying Motorbike" signs. You turned left into Steventon Road; was there an advance warning sign as you approached ?
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #5 on: »
I did not see any advance signage.
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #6 on: »
OK, so I suggest you submit reps on the basis that the restriction signs are not visible to a motorist turning left into the restricted zone due to them being side-on on the approach. In addition, they are mounted ridiculously high so as to be barely noticeable when turning when an experienced motorist will have his attention elsewhere.
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you.
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #8 on: »
I have submitted a Representation. Sadly I have received another PCN yesterday. This is for the same alleged offence. I did not know then, as I have said I have travelled this route many times previously. My question is: do I submit the same reason just copied and pasted? or do I refer to my previous Grounds as well?, thanking you.
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: cmmanage on February 11, 2026, 09:22:00 am
I have submitted a Representation. Sadly I have received another PCN yesterday. This is for the same alleged offence. I did not know then, as I have said I have travelled this route many times previously. My question is: do I submit the same reason just copied and pasted? or do I refer to my previous Grounds as well?, thanking you.
You referred to a CPZ sign, but it is not visible on the video, so please tell us where it is. I doubt it is of any use in your reps. I assume you have not had a reply to your reps for the first PCN ?
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #10 on: »
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #11 on: »
So why did you say this in your reps, which, with the sign not there when you passed the restriction signs, makes them far less credible:-
Quote
In my defence/grounds for representations, I feel there was no contravention, since the sign when entering the road states "Controlled Zone V Mon-Fri 9am-5pm".

If this new PCN is for the same location, please post it here. If not, then start another thread.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2026, 04:38:00 pm by Incandescent »
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #12 on: »
I mentioned the CPZ since this sign was always there and has only just recently been removed. The most recent offence can be viewed at www.lbhf.gov.uk/pcnimages
HZ96944334
LM66UOK, thanking you
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Re: 52M - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cmmanage on February 11, 2026, 04:43:27 pm
I mentioned the CPZ since this sign was always there and has only just recently been removed. The most recent offence can be viewed at www.lbhf.gov.uk/pcnimages
HZ96944334
LM66UOK, thanking you
Presumably you forgot about getting the PCN here ? The same argument applies as I said before, there is no advance warning and the actual signs are grotesquely high, and side-on to an approaching vehicle intending to turn left at this location so are virtually invisible until the turn is commenced.

Inadequacy of signage can win at London Tribunals, but you must be prepared to forego the discount.
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