Free Traffic Legal Advice

Well, problem is if she can't afford the discounted penalties, she's not going to afford the full penalties.  Fighting traffic-type PCNs means you have to go to adjudication, and that means no discount if you lose.

One appeal argument that could work is that as she missed the signs, she wasn't aware of the offence until the first PCN arrived, and two more had been issued between that offence and the date of receipt of the first PCN, so she could submit reps on the basis of not knowing about the offence until the first PCN arrived, and the subsequent two PCNs are a disproportionate punishment.

I suggest you write a single representation, listing all three PCNs at the top, with date of PCN and date of receipt, and, based on your narrative, state that you found the city very busy and obviously missed the advanced sign indicating No Right Turn into Oxford Road on the three days you drove in the city.  Point out that it wasn't until you received the first PCN on <date> a full 8 days after the alleged offence, that you were aware you had made a mistake. State that you consider asking for payment for all three PCNs is disproportionate punishment as it was only on receipt of the first PCN that you realised your mistake. You therefore respectfully request that the two later PCNs be cancelled and payment at the discounted rate accepted for the first one.

They may give way or they may play hardball, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Make sure you submit your reps within the discount period.

@cp8759 Hi, thanks for the reply. I'll get the PCNs to you soon along with any correspondence we get back from the council. In the mean time, the submission is as follows:

"Hi,

My name is [Name]
My number plate is: LS69 MGO

On 15/02/2024 I received 3 PCNs informing me of alleged offences happening between 06/02/2024 and 09/02/2024, one dated 13/02/2024 and two dated 14/02/2024 regarding driving down the Oxford Road bus gate between Charles Street and Brancaster Road.

I am a newer driver, dyslexic and the road (Hulme Street) is busy with many vehicles travelling down it and plenty of foot traffic from goods vehicles being unloaded and pedestrians crossing the road. This meant a lot of my focus had to be on the road ahead of me in order to drive safely.

Whilst advanced signs are present, they are to the side of the road with parked cars in front of them which obscure the information on them - especially when I have to pay so much attention to the road ahead due to traffic. Additionally, there are often goods vehicles unloading on the double yellow lines present on Hulme Street which further obscures the signs and due to their size adds to the pressure of driving down there.

At the junction from Hulme Street to Oxford Road there is no on-junction signage facing the direction of Hulme Street, like there is for the other directions. As there is on-junction signage facing all other directions indicating the restrictions on Oxford Road, I assumed Hulme Street was an intentional exception. The lack of road markings in this area compounded this misunderstanding.

On 06/02/2024 I drove down Hulme Street at 14:58pm - an incredibly busy time where there was plenty of foot traffic and vehicle traffic which took all of my attention. There were unloading goods vehicles and plenty of parked cars. I therefore was unaware of the advanced signage present.

Once I got to the junction, I could not see any signage indicating that I could not turn to the right from Hulme Street onto Oxford Road and, having missed the earlier signage and upon not seeing any road markings indicating that I couldn't, proceeded to turn right onto Oxford Road.

A few days went past, and on 09/02/2024 I drove down Hulme Street and turned right onto Oxford Road twice as my disabled partner needed picking up/dropping off at Manchester Metropolitain University. The conditions when I drove down Hulme Street both times on 09/02/2024 were similar to the time I drove down it on 06/02/2024 and once more I missed the advanced signage. As there were no road markings or on-junction signs, I made the right turn onto Oxford Road from Hulme Street twice more on 09/02/2024.

The PCN for 06/02/2024 had not been received by 09/02/2024, so I was unaware of the alleged offence when I turned right onto Oxford Road on 09/02/2024 or on 06/02/2024. I only became aware of the alleged offence(s) after I had received all three PCNs on 15/02/2024 (8 days after the first alleged offence and 6 days after the second and third), by which point I had made the turn three times.

Since I received the PCNs I have not turned right from Hulme Street onto Oxford Road as it was never my intention to drive through the bus gate - I was simply unaware of the restrictions due to the busy conditions concealing the advanced signage and on-junction signage not being present. Had I been aware of the restrictions the first time I went down Hulme Street, I would not have turned right onto Oxford Road - however I definitely would not have turned right from Hulme Street onto Oxford Road a further two times had I received the PCN from 06/02/2024 prior to my trips on 09/02/2024.

As I was unaware of the restrictions for various reasons and would not have repeated the contravention twice on 09/02/2024 had I been aware of the contravention on 06/02/2024 sooner, I consider requesting payment for all three contraventions a disproportionate punishment, especially due to my position as a full time carer only receiving universal credit (with disability element), and respectfully request that the two PCNs dated 09/02/2024 be cancelled and payment at the discounted rate be accepted for the PCN dated 06/02/2024.

I apologise for the time needed to formulate this representation - It took me a significant amount of time to face this issue without breaking down due to my anxiety, which I struggle greatly with on top of other mental health conditions. I am also dyslexic and required my partner to help draft and submit this representation.

Thank you for your time and consideration,
I hope this message reaches you well,

Respectfully,
[Name]"

In the subject line was "PCN Representations - MC19174954, MC19187195, MC19187559".

Hopefully nothing was said that'll shoot our chances down ;p

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

Sorry I completely forgot to post the PCNs! Here's the reply from the council though, hopefully I remember the PCNs in the next week (sorry, I have a condition which affects memory a lot!).

Attached are all 3 responses to the representations. We had one acceptance and two rejections.

I disagree with the rejections in the sense that it claims there are entry signs on the start of the bus gate, however none are visible from the junction when viewed from Hulme Street. Although advanced signage is present, nothing regarding the traffic conditions which frequently obscure and distract from said signage is mentioned in the rejection letter like we mentioned in the representations.

Let me know what you guys think please!

Thanks in advance and for all your help and advice so far.

@CSkully621 fundamentally there needs to be a decision by the registered keeper on whether to settle now at the discount, or risk the full amount on appeal. I can explore the camera certification (we've not checked it for years as we don't see this location much any more) and we can always pick holes in the evidence pack, but there is no smoking gun at the moment so this largely depends on your partner's attitude to risk.

bit of a latecomer to this, the advance signs could be construed as referring to Measham Mews on the right as seen in GSV. There's no signs at all AT the junction of Oxford Road to prohibit a right turn. Surely that is contra to TSRGD? I know from driving round there a couple of years ago the road signage is badly faded as are the road surfaces in central Manchester.

Personally I'd challenege the lot at tribunal on the grounds of inadequate or missing signage. Do they supply a photo of the bus gate sign in the evidence pack? That could well be a winner if they don't.

Having had a second look at GSV, there's a big sign at the start of the bus gate, but that would be invisible for a vehicle turning right. It needs to be a bit further along. It would be quite easy to miss the advance signs if there's vans or lorries parked along there.

@cp8759 Sorry for the confusion! To clarify that's 2x £30 charges, better situation than dealing with the 3x £30 charges or risking it becoming £180 total at tribunal (3x £60) even if I reckon it's a reasonable argument that there isn't any signage at the junction itself.

@roythebus Unfortunately unless we have a smoking gun (like >95%) I doubt she'd be comfortable going ahead with the appeal since the £60 is already quite a lot of money for us! £180 would be pretty detrimental to have to pay if we lose. I appreciate your input though!