Author Topic: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines  (Read 828 times)

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Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
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Dear all,

The car was parked between a bay and double yellow lines (did not realised it were double lines at the time) in a rush. As the street was fully closed due to construction work and the next set of bays were partly obstructed with a metallic wall with a door placed just right on the bays area it lead to the assumption that parking just there could be more obstructive than were the car was finally parked. Bay restriction times were already not applicable by the time the car was parked (after 6pm on a weekend).
If it helps, it is notified in the council site about construction works that specific area.
Would you think there is any change to appeal at all?

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Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #1 on: »
@Cremebrule you need to read the guidance here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Then update your post with the required information and we'll give you advice, no meaningful advice can be given without the missing information.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #2 on: »
Apologies, hope that the photos can be seen.




And this is the specific location 53.789439, -1.533901
« Last Edit: June 18, 2024, 01:07:25 am by Cremebrule »

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #3 on: »
About half your car was on the double-yellow lines, so it seems the PCN was correctly issued. HOwever, we always recommend submitting informal reps against a PCN, just to give us more investigation time, and also because councils can, (and often do) shoot themselves in the foot when rejecting the reps.

I suggest you emphasise that the road ahead was closed, so the offence was a very trivial one, and you are surprised the CEO issued a PCN at all, as there would seem to be no traffic management benefit in the penalty. Don't be confrontational in your reps; the PCN was correctly issued albeit a bit of a money-grubbing one, but don't use this expression !
« Last Edit: June 18, 2024, 11:54:56 am by Incandescent »

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #4 on: »
So here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/nMJaDUX9zh1N3cmr6

@Cremebrule please post the back of the PCN, and give us the number plate.

In the meantime I'll try and get hold of the traffic order.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #5 on: »
Dear all, thank you for taking the time to look into this. Yes, on our side the car could have been pushed five more inches into the bay and it is not evident/clear from the picture but a lot of unutilised space was left within the other vehicles which could have fit my car. Spot on, the link on cp8759's post shows the same area before all the building construction. Thank you so much again because it was already out of my mind that the double lines were probably placed to give access to an old building entrance that is currently non-existent. The back of the fine is just below and the plate is CV58UKJ.



I will try to draft something today - thank you again for your time.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2024, 07:56:17 am by Cremebrule »

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #6 on: »
Here are the council photos:







It doesn't look good, do you have any mitigation worth mentioning? You may want to consider the strategy of last resort.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #7 on: »
I still think it's a money-grubbing PCN, though.

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #8 on: »
Hi all, than you for yout inputs.

I have been gathering information about what has been going on in the area (traffic orders, restrictions, maps…).

I’m going to try to challenge the double yellow line along the dropping kerb on the grounds that it does not lead to an access point. It’s likely that the dropping kerb was installed at some point in the past to enable vehicles and lorries entering into and exiting from the lot, but this is no longer the case, as there is now a wall built there. In addition, my car didn’t obstruct neither pedestrians nor road users.

I might also mention that I found myself very stressed and overwhelmed as I had no idea of the mess that was going on in the area (temporary traffic signs, road closures…), to the point that I decided it was better to drop the car as soon as possible as I did not feel comfortable driving there. Surely it was not the best place to park, but I thought it was better there than parking on the empty bay, as I would have ended up in the same situation as plenty of space would have been required for the metallic door to do not clash to the car if opened.

Furthermore, shouldn’t the council take the appropriate measures to remove double yellow lines when they don’t serve its purpose anymore?

Thank you in advance

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #9 on: »
I’m going to try to challenge the double yellow line along the dropping kerb on the grounds that it does not lead to an access point.
Please tell me you haven't done that!

You cannot challenge the merits of a restriction by means of a penalty charge notice, the merits of a traffic order can only be challenged in the High Court under the procedure described in Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, and the time limit for that has long-since passed.

You absolutely cannot succeed on an argument that the waiting restriction should not be there, such a contention is not arguable as a matter of law and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal cannot entertain the argument.

I might also mention that I found myself very stressed and overwhelmed as I had no idea of the mess that was going on in the area (temporary traffic signs, road closures…), to the point that I decided it was better to drop the car as soon as possible as I did not feel comfortable driving there.
That doesn't really add up, if you were so stressed out being there why wouldn't you drive out and park on the next street?

Surely it was not the best place to park, but I thought it was better there than parking on the empty bay, as I would have ended up in the same situation as plenty of space would have been required for the metallic door to do not clash to the car if opened.
The empty bay did not appear to be suspended so you could have parked there, odds are the metal gate opens inwards anyway. Regardless, nothing you mentioned entitled you to park on double yellow lines.

Furthermore, shouldn’t the council take the appropriate measures to remove double yellow lines when they don’t serve its purpose anymore?
Maybe, but it's not something that you can challenge as part of the process of appealing a penalty charge. Really this is a political issue you'd need to take up with the local councillors, who you can find here: https://www.writetothem.com/

It's also not at all clear that the lines serve no purpose, if this is a controlled parking zone then the council is legally required to mark every length of road, there cannot be any unmarked stretches.

Do you have any mitigating circumstances that are unrelated to the parking contravention? Anything such as recent bereavement, financial difficulties, health problems etc?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #10 on: »
@Cremebrule I've been sent a working copy of The City Council of Liverpool (North – Part 1 Stationary Vehicle Offences) (Consolidation) Order, 2006; I'm going to go back for the enacted version but are you still with us?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 11:38:51 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Leeds, 01, Chadwick St, double yellow lines
« Reply #11 on: »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order