3. Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
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Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
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Hi I need some help please, I received a PCN For apparently not giving way to an oncoming vehicle on Salters way. I am in the Black Audi Q2 (before the black van who does give way in the youtube video) https://www.youtube.com/shorts/m9IY9h_sUpU

I believe the oncoming DHL van had just come into the turning rather quickly and had not even reached the correct area - I don't believe there was enough time to see the van let alone stop at the 'transverse line' at such short notice, ALSO - you can see the van didn't slow down or change course but Lambeth Council have rejected my appeal.

I believe the next step is appealing at a Tribunal, Do I even have a case? I believed I do - what do you think? Shall I just pay the fine?

Original PCN: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gymlarsr0egv3x87lme0r/Original-PCN.JPG?rlkey=q0afpmp564iptf3lv58n33umh&st=qtyjr7d5&dl=0

Appeal Rejected Page 1: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kjvn97gs50ettxewc7cph/Appeal-Rejected-1.JPG?rlkey=rvnmtflxlhp79cyb8pok6h9l9&st=ate6vzpl&dl=0

Appeal Rejected Page 2: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5vrnzkf82oeasgue5sn69/Appeal-Rejected-page2.JPG?rlkey=ro1w00bihtj4n9abjl3j5jpk2&st=w1m7iyno&dl=0


Supporting pics: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wvepqckexxp69z0tye534/IMG_0582.PNG?rlkey=58l7qg2cvvp9thyfntmzs33io&st=gd85eql9&dl=0


Supporting Pics: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qmn0rzboj2r4hl1lzcegn/IMG_0580.PNG?rlkey=nvk2gwkstesiaw6l7rwklr861&st=0szn92iv&dl=0

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« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 06:10:30 pm by Bg2024 »
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #1 on: »
For meaningful advice please post up a copy of your reps and (a link to) the video, which is the evidence.
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #2 on: »
Done :) can you view the links now?
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: Bg2024 on May 23, 2024, 03:43:13 pm
Done :) can you view the links now?

I can see
one side of the PCN -where are the remaining sides?
both sides of the rejection - where are your reps?
and
two stills from the video - where is the video?

EDIT
Can see the video, so important to see the remaining paperwork and check for errors in the 'small print'.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 04:33:39 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #4 on: »
OP---others may differ but I think you are bang to rights.

Some members will say the give way area is between the signposts.

My view has always been the speed hump encountered by oncoming traffic is critically important.

Watch the yellow van hit the bump and the position of your vehicle at that time.

Does the van slow down? If so you have impeded it.

Mike
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #5 on: »
I have attached the rejection letter (both sides) on my original post - its a drop box link. Is it not visible?
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: Bg2024 on May 23, 2024, 05:52:41 pm
I have attached the rejection letter (both sides) on my original post - its a drop box link. Is it not visible?

As I said, I can see it, but not your reps to the Council which they are rejecting. Nor can I see the remaining sides of the PCN.
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #7 on: »
It is NOT 'Give Way', it is a give priority as per the Traffic Signs Regs.

In the absence of an associated plate defining the area, the priority area is defined by reference to the infrastructure realities i.e. the bridge.

This is supported by reference to the sign (you have priority over) from the other direction.

IMO, I do not see how the contravention could be proved by reference to a vehicle not in the priority area. If this is permitted, then the Signs Regs are kicked into touch and, to continue the metaphor, who is to decide where the goalposts are placed?
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #8 on: »
@Bg2024 I think you have an arguable appeal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #9 on: »
I think I have an arguable appeal too, I will send you a private message if you don’t mind? I wonder what would be the best way to articulate that there isn’t exactly a boundary to judge when to stop. Also I do not feel like the van had to slow down because of me.
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #10 on: »
@Bg2024 what was the outcome of your appeal?

I'm in the same situation, at the same location.
I was a little rushed at the time (Audi Q7) and I tailgated the vehicle in front of me to get by. The oncoming vehicle wasn't really bothered and went about there business with no apparent fuss. The LA clearly have intentions of extortion. It's scandalous.

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« Last Edit: February 04, 2025, 04:28:10 pm by Sean777c »
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Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #11 on: »
@Sean777c
if you want advice about your own situation please start your own thread.

READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**, 

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
Re: Lambeth council , PCN code 37j Failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salters way, Norwood
« Reply #12 on: »
We see many cases here and as said you need to start your thread with the PCN and video if you want us to look at it.
From your pics though it doesn't look good.
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