3. Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
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Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
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Hello Experts,

I have received this PCN as certain vehciles were not allowed to go on that street. I have been at that site before and did not see these signs before and never had a pcn. I just went to drop off and then drove back without knowing the cars are not allowed. I have done it 2-3 times in last few days just to drop off, worried i might received more of these. Please could someone help.










Thanks
« Last Edit: June 19, 2024, 12:22:08 am by cp8759 »
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #1 on: »
It is very likely you will receive more PCNs.  Did you not see the sign, or you saw it and ignored it ?
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #2 on: »
I did not see it at all, main sign was on the side and can easily get missed.
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #3 on: »
Well, there are actually two signs there, so you may well struggle with the contravention itself : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4yvoFWCRvCPEXKcB9
But only one has the text board below it. This assumes GSV latest view, dated Oct 2022 still reflects the current situation. You could argue on lack of advance warning as you approach to turn left into the street, as GSV doesn't show any.

As for the PCNs yet to arrive; if they are dated after the first PCN, but before you received the first one, you could argue it is a disproportionate penalty because you were unaware of the contravention until the first PCN arrived.  They may cancel the later ones, but they don't have to. So best not to be confrontational in your reps !

BTW, I looked on their website but there seem to be only photo extracts from the video. There seems to be no video to view.
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi, Thanks for the reply. There is a video too just below the images with play sign. What should I write in the represenation and what is the last date to do this?
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #5 on: »
Video:



You say you'd been on site before and you were dropping something / someone off. So, what's the nature of the site, why were you there, and who or what were you dropping off?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi, Thanks for the reply. This road leads to Hounslow high street and I just dropped my relatives there and drove back, I did not stay or park there.

Quote from: cp8759 on June 19, 2024, 12:37:40 am
Video:



You say you'd been on site before and you were dropping something / someone off. So, what's the nature of the site, why were you there, and who or what were you dropping off?
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #7 on: »
Hello, any thoughts of what to write in the representation?
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #8 on: »
Do you have any mitigating circumstances unrelated to the contravention that you could advance?

This might have to be a case for the strategy of last resort.

The traffic order is The London Borough of Hounslow (Prescribed Routes) Order 2023.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 04:50:21 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi, Thanks for the reply.  can not think of anything else,  with regards to creating a video for them to then click etc, I had a pcn where we tried it before but tribunal did not consider that.  Please advise what to do next here?
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #10 on: »
@dk007 well the discount is gone and it won't be reoffered, your deadline to make representations is Thursday 4th.

The only other thing I can think of is if you make a video and send it to the council with the representations, in the past some authorities have failed to supply a copy to the tribunal, and failure to provide a true copy of the representations is a near-sure win and has never failed.

I've sent a test email with a 24mb dummy file to hounslow.challenges@nsl.co.uk and it went through, so what I'd suggest you do is you get a video of the approach to the restriction and try and get the file size to be as close as possible to 24 MB.

Then you can submit a representation on the ground that the signage wasn't adequate and provide the video as supporting evidence. If at the tribunal stage the council doesn't provide the video to the tribunal, you've got out of it as the council will have failed to follow the statutory process.

Of course there is no absolute guarantee that this will work, but you have nothing to lose in giving it a go.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #11 on: »
Hello Experts,

As suggested, I got the video yesterday and planned to make my representations in the evening when back home, but I forgot to do it. Please could you check if deadline was yesterday only or do i have today's time. Based on 28 days after the notice is served, 5th june is the date on the notice, do we also add 2-3 days to arrive in the post, please clarify, if I am late, do i still send representations or is there any other way I should follow?

Thanks
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #12 on: »
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #13 on: »
Where is your representation?
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Re: Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road
« Reply #14 on: »
This is what I wrote in my representation:

I would like to appeal for the PCN NJ4024733A. The basis for my representation is that the signage was not adequate, specially the one on the right side of the entrance could not be seen when entering the road and other signage on the left does not have any text to make it clearer. Please find attached a video as an evidence for that.

I would request to kindly allow my appeal. I now know about the restriction and would not let this happen again.

Quote from: John U.K. on August 21, 2024, 08:31:03 am
Where is your representation?
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  3. Hounslow, Code 52JM, Prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Fair Stree J/W Hanworth Road