3. Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
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Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
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Posting a summary thread on request.

Received PCN 14th May for parking without a valid permit.

Have subsequently challenged on basis of procedural impropriety

Have yet to receive a response from the council.

Please let me know if any further information is needed from me or if the above will suffice

Thanks.
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #1 on: »
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #2 on: »
Please post up the PCN and any other documents sent / received on here.

The response from the council to my EIR request is below:

Please find attached time stamped pictures of signs taken on the 4th of May  2023.  Photos taken as part of record keeping  for when the ‘next events’ sign plates were installed; informing of events scheduled for the 14th and 28th of May 2023



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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #3 on: »
Link to previous post on Pepipoo is:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149864&hl=Haringey


PCN re-attached below





Written representation copy below:

Dear Sir/Madame,

I'm writing to challenge the PCN issued to my vehicle (14/05/2023 / GV66 KEU). I'm providing representation on the grounds that I believe the ticket was issued incorrectly/there was procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority. As the evidence shows, the signage stated that it was a resident's permit holders only from Noon-4.30pm on Sundays and Public holidays but this was on Match and event days only. Upon parking, I didn't observe any signage in the immediate vicinity, other than the photos taken as evidence by the Enforcement officer, to inform me that it was a match day.

There is no evidence on the photos of any signs stating that the 14th May 2023 was an event day and parking restrictions were in force. If there were, please provide me with evidence of such signage that is date and time stamped at the time of the alleged contravention.

If the evidence is not readily available, given the above, I believe the PCN should be cancelled.

Sincerely,

Adam Pearson




As of this morning, I've received no response to this and have saved a screen grab (inc. date and time) that shows no update
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 11:57:43 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 27, 2023, 04:52:45 pm
Please post up the PCN and any other documents sent / received on here.

The response from the council to my EIR request is below:

Please find attached time stamped pictures of signs taken on the 4th of May  2023.  Photos taken as part of record keeping  for when the ‘next events’ sign plates were installed; informing of events scheduled for the 14th and 28th of May 2023





What are your thoughts on this response @cp8759? Personally, I'm not sure if evidences either way that signs were present on or near Oakfield road? Unless there is alternative evidence that they can provide. Although, the evidence they have and also the additional picture of another sign on Oakfield Road that I took a picture of, doesn't show the signage demonstrated in the response to the EIR.

I'm guessing we'll have to wait and see what their response is to my challenge? Is there a time limit to which they have to respond to the challenge legally?
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #5 on: »
In the first instance please post all the documents on here so everything is in one place please.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - parked in space without permit - Oakfield Road - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #6 on: »
Correspondence that I sent should be in the thread above.

Original PCN

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T_nri7iJq4qhDjShqNSaj7zzAZSOjgTQ/view?usp=sharing



I've now received a response from Haringey and they have decided not to cancel the PCN. I've attached the letter and redacted name and address. Please let me know if you need me to copy and paste the text from the letter onto the thread?

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 10:00:57 am by Hodor51 »
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #7 on: »
I have gone back and asked if they have photos of the signs you would have passed, I should have double check but it's now obvious that the photos they've provided are of some other location.

Obviously the next step is to wait for the Notice to Owner, assuming you have the V5C and the address is up to date?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #8 on: »
Latest photos from the council:



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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #9 on: »
Yes V5 is up to date. I think today is the last day i can pay the reduced fees. Given the latest photos they've provided is there a case here? I really dont remember seeing this signage upon entry to the area (as focusing on the road in front of me but i guess that's what they count on) and unfortunately i dont have camera footage or anything to back myself up
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 01:17:15 am by Hodor51 »
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #10 on: »
If you wait for the Notice to Owner and make formal representations within 14 days of the date of issue, they will re-offer the 50% discount even if they reject, so it's arguable that you might as well have another go. If you're lucky, they might make a procedural error along the way.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #11 on: »
Ok thank you
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 26, 2023, 10:40:28 am
If you wait for the Notice to Owner and make formal representations within 14 days of the date of issue, they will re-offer the 50% discount even if they reject, so it's arguable that you might as well have another go. If you're lucky, they might make a procedural error along the way.

Hi there,

Just to update that I received the notice to owner in the post this afternoon. Please can you advise on next steps?

I realised that in my original representations, I requested evidence that signage was present on the day in which the alleged contravention occurred. No such evidence was provided and the photo you have obtained was taken on a different date. Does this hold any substance at all or would I request the evidence again in my next formal representations or make note that no such evidence was provided on request?

Thanks
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #13 on: »
Please post up all sides of the NtO, so it can be checked for errors.
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Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
« Reply #14 on: »
OP, you posted:
I requested evidence that signage was present on the day in which the alleged contravention occurred. No such evidence was provided and the photo you have obtained was taken on a different date.

Are you saying that the signs are at the location where you entered the CPZ? If so, the fact that they have taken them on a different day is to their credit, isn't it, because this means they have given drivers ample notice. Let's be clear, an adjudicator would find on the balance of probabilities that because they were there on or about 4 May then they were there on 14 May. The burden of showing they were not would fall to you IMO.
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  3. Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo