Author Topic: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill  (Read 244 times)

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Pothole_Percy

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2025, 11:51:30 pm »
Thanks @Incandescent. That's a good point. Worst case is this will cost me an extra £65, but I do feel it's important to tackle injustice when it occurs, which I feels has happened here.

So, should I wait for the NTO to arrive for the currently discounted PCN and them make reps for both NTOs together? What happens if the second NTO doesn't arrive in time?

Incandescent

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2025, 12:54:05 am »
It all depends on how much you are prepared to fight. If the contravention they claim is fairly solid, then best result is probably getting the discount for PCN 2,and paying discount on PCN 1. However, you have the absolute right in law to take them all the way to London Tribunals, with the maximum amount in play the penalties of the two PCNs. No discount at London Tribunals, I'm afraid, its a double-or-quits gamble.

Pothole_Percy

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2025, 04:01:16 am »
Thanks. 

As I see it, there are four points in my defence.

  • Website issues.
  • Only sending one reminder.
  • The first PCN being blown away due to not being affixed properly to my car.
  • Getting two PCNs for effectively one transgression of the rules.

I feel the website issues will get throw out at every stage. I've not got any proof of the problem and I'd be really surprised that even if the site was faulty, I'd be able to get hold of any.

The "one reminder" process feels just like a blatant money making attempt. It feels so wrong. I just can't see the council letting me off due to this. I plan to speak with my local councillors about this after everything is concluded.

For the blown away PCN, I  feel this is the most likely to get some clemency from the council, by getting the option to pay it at a discount. If this went up to the London Tribunals what are they likely to do?

I'm not sure about the two PCNs for one mistake. I imagine the Council would throw it out. How much of a chance is there that London Tribunals might agree with this being unfair? I have read that there is no guidance on how often a car can be ticketed, so that means the council is still within their rights to issue multiple tickets in one day. So two in three days starts to feel not so bad!

I'd like to understand what will stand to lose by paying the discounted PCN before the cut off date.  As far as I can see, I am unlikely to get off both tickets, so paying one now would lock in the discount.  I think my goal here is to try to reduce the amount I have to pay, so paying the discount makes sense to me. Am I missing anything?

Incandescent

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2025, 10:19:17 am »
Once you pay the discount, the case is closed for that PCN, and you cannot appeal to the adjudicators simply because they will not then serve a Notice to Owner. Only when reps against an NtO are refused can one appeal to the adjudicators.

Hippocrates

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2025, 12:05:01 pm »
cp8759 has won a case recently on their website. 224044582A.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HFrUPGylRoFSWld2VemCsSvA8wmU5exX/view
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 12:07:00 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Pothole_Percy

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2025, 02:29:16 am »
Once you pay the discount, the case is closed for that PCN, and you cannot appeal to the adjudicators simply because they will not then serve a Notice to Owner. Only when reps against an NtO are refused can one appeal to the adjudicators.
I do understand that if I fold and pay at the discount, that's the end of one of the PCNs. But I do have another, which is now at the full amount, so I will take that all the way to the tribunal stage if required.

Do you think it will reduce my chances of getting the "blown away" PCN cancelled if I opt to pay the other PCN at the discounted rate? Does it weaken my case at all and might possibly be interpreted as some sort of admission of guilt?

My case for fighting the blown away PCN (after paying for the other PCN at the discounted rate) would be that it was not affixed properly to my car and I have already received a PCN for the same violation (I did not move my car between PCNs).

I need to decide whether to pay at the discounted rate by 22 January.

Pothole_Percy

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2025, 02:38:21 am »
cp8759 has won a case recently on their website. 224044582A.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HFrUPGylRoFSWld2VemCsSvA8wmU5exX/view
It's reassuring to hear that their website has been recognised at being poorly designed.  Do you think my experience of trying to renew my permit, but having issues in the process, might hold some weight now?

Pothole_Percy

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2025, 11:06:21 pm »
I've been looking over the London Tribunals case list and I starting to feel less confident about being able to get any of the PCNs cancelled. With that in mind, I now believe my best option is to submit reps to the council for the NTO that I have received for the blown away PCN, with the aim of getting it either cancelled or the discount re-offered.  Then pay both PCNs at the discounted rate.

Here's my draft reps for the PCN that was blown away, and for which I have recently received the NTO.

Quote
I would like to please request that this PCN be cancelled.

After receiving my parking permit reminder, I logged onto renew my permit. Due to a problem with the permit website, I was unable to complete the renewal process. Had more than one renewal reminder been sent out, I would have remembered to renew it again later.

There is off-street parking where I live, so I rarely need to park my car on the road, yet I have always made sure that I have had a parking permit since moving in. My permit renewal records will show this. On this occasion, I parked my car on the road only due to believing I had a valid permit.

Two PCNs were issued for the same parking contravention. My car had not moved at all between the two PCNs being issued. I did not notice the PCNs because I did not pass my car on my journey to work. Had I notice the first one before it was blown away, I would have moved my car immediately.

This PCN was not present on my car when I found the other PCN. I only knew of this PCN from viewing the evidence supporting the other PCN. At that stage the two PCNs were not linked together on the parking portal. Before the Notice to Owner arrived, I had written to the council to find the details of the first PCN. Even though my letter was received, I did not receive a formal reply.

The PCN I found on my car still had all its backing paper intact. This means that during a particularly windy period of weather, PCNs were affixed to cars using a limited amount adhesive. To me, this feels wrong.  The other PCN was only there because someone had placed it under my windscreen wiper to stop it from being blown away. I have photographic evidence of this.

I would be very grateful if this PCN could be cancelled.  I have received two PCNs for one parking contravention, which was partly due to a technical issue with the parking permit website. I also feel I have been unfairly penalised further due to the civil enforcement officer not affixing the PCN properly to my car, so it was eventually blown away in the wind and thus removing my option to pay at the discounted rate.

Are there any changes I should make to increase my chances of getting the PCN cancelled or just the discount re-offered?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 11:08:19 pm by Pothole_Percy »

Pothole_Percy

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Re: Haringey, Code 12(r) Parked in a Residents Space, Shepherds Hill
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2025, 09:55:33 pm »
Hello again,

I decided to pay the first PCN at the discounted rate.

I'm now going to make representations for the second PCN that was blown away. I'd like to use most of my draft above and add this to the end:

Quote
I would l like to challenge the PCN as being not being served in accordance with Regulation 9 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007. This is because I believe that the PCN was not affixed to my windscreen with an adequately amount of adhesive. This probably resulted in it being blown away by a gust of wind.  The reason I believe this to be the case is because the other PCN, served for the same parking contravention, had all its adhesive backing paper still in place when I removed it from under a windscreen wiper. Had that PCN not been moved there, it may have also blown away. I fail to understand why any PCN would be served in this way, especially during such windy weather, which was the case during the week when both PCNs were served. I request that this PCN be cancelled.

Is there anything else you think I should include? I have to submit this by the end of Thursday 13 February.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2025, 10:02:22 pm by Pothole_Percy »