Author Topic: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10  (Read 1573 times)

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Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #15 on: »
Confirmed hearing for this Saturday 16th August.

Please let me know which part of what I've posted I should highlight

Also, if my husband is to sit in on the call does he need to be listed as a representative?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2025, 08:50:12 am by ringzer »

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #16 on: »
The council should have uploaded an evidence pack at least 7 days before the hearing, and you should have access to it.

Did they?

Do yo? If so we need to be aware of anything in the evidence pack that justifies their position.

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #17 on: »
The council should have uploaded an evidence pack at least 7 days before the hearing, and you should have access to it.

Did they?

Do yo? If so we need to be aware of anything in the evidence pack that justifies their position.

I don't see any evidence pack when I log back into London Tribunals. I see all of my details and the PCN and the only thing in the "Uploaded evidence" is my original submission taken from this forum: "Further information about the appeal: The box junction does not conform to the requirements of TSRGD schedule 9 part 11 para 6 . I will suppy more detail at a later date before any hearing."

So as far as I can tell they haven't Greenwich haven't uploaded anything



Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #18 on: »
Greenwich is in a mess currently and doesn't supply evidence to the tribunal for a lot of contested PCNs so this may be another one.

Eg one of two cases yesterday.

-----------


Case reference   2250246717
Appellant   xxxxxxx
Authority   Royal Borough of Greenwich
VRM   LD21HHO
PCN Details
PCN   GR2335011A
Contravention date   28 Mar 2025
Contravention time   08:05:00
Contravention location   Plumstead Common Road
Penalty amount   N/A
Contravention   Entering and stopping in a box junction
Referral date   -
Decision Date   11 Aug 2025
Adjudicator   Carl Teper
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Reasons   
The Authority was successfully notified by the Tribunal on the 19 May 2025 that the appeal in relation to this Penalty Charge Notice would be heard today, the 11 August 2025 at 8:45am.

The Authority has failed to produce a copy of the Penalty Charge Notice or any other evidence.

Without a copy of the Penalty Charge Notice there is no evidence that a contravention occurred.

I must therefore allow this appeal without consideration of any of the issues raised by either party.

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #19 on: »
So are they just wasting my time and the adjudicator's time by effectively not showing up with any evidence?

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #20 on: »
This is the Tribunal's position as expressed in a standing Practice Direction. As I understand it, your case comes under the 1993 regs(made under the 1991 Act):

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Practice%20Direction%2001-2025%20on%20behalf%20of%20ETA%2022%20May%202025%20-%20EA%20response%20to%20Notice%20of%20Appeal_0.pdf

Personally and having regard to this Direction, I don't know why the adjudicator in the quoted case had to convene a hearing when under the PD IMO this could have been dealt with administratively without bothering the appellant.

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #21 on: »
This is the Tribunal's position as expressed in a standing Practice Direction. As I understand it, your case comes under the 1993 regs(made under the 1991 Act):

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Practice%20Direction%2001-2025%20on%20behalf%20of%20ETA%2022%20May%202025%20-%20EA%20response%20to%20Notice%20of%20Appeal_0.pdf

Personally and having regard to this Direction, I don't know why the adjudicator in the quoted case had to convene a hearing when under the PD IMO this could have been dealt with administratively without bothering the appellant.

So basically there is no need to convene a hearing if the local authority hasn't served the proper evidence of a contravention within 7 days of me appealing it?

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #22 on: »
Well, there's at least the theoretical possibility that the Council might suddenly present the adjudicators with a compelling reason to ask for the case to be rescheduled.

Given how vexed the adjudicator who is having to give up his or her Saturday for nothing is likely to be by all this, I suggest looking into the adjudicator's power to award you costs. It's quite a high bar, and you'd only get a few pounds, but the experts here can probably tell you how to go about asking the adjudicator nicely and what to ask for.

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #23 on: »
Yes it was mentioned here previously about asking for costs to be awarded so would be keen too understand what to ask for and how.

The yellow box is absolutely invalid and the council must know this but didn't want to allow the appeal and were hoping I would just pay

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #24 on: »
I've just had multiple calls from someone at London Tribunals and given no evidence has been uploaded I was told there is no need to attend the hearing tomorrow as the appeal with be allowed.

I asked about costs and was told that I can apply in writing after the decision, which should come through on Monday.

Is this correct about applying for costs afterwards? I'm obviously pleased about the appeal being allowed but really want to force the issue with Greenwich rejecting the appeal of a clearly invalid claim.

I haven't actually uploaded any evidence other than the suggested live or two suggested earlier in this post, so will upload the letter I sent to the council

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #25 on: »
You can't apply for costs until the case is concluded at the tribunal. Given Greenwich is dumping so many appeals when it knows it's going to do so I would have thought a costs application could be taken seriously.

----------

Can I claim back my expenses?

The appeals procedure is designed to be free and not to discourage people from appealing through fear of paying costs and charges. 

In the very large majority of cases, the adjudicator will not order costs or expenses to be paid by the enforcing authority to an appellant who wins a case. Similarly, the adjudicator will not order an appellant who loses a case to pay costs to the enforcing authority.

Costs and expenses may only be awarded by the adjudicator in very rare circumstances if the adjudicator determines that you or the enforcing authority has acted ‘frivolously’, ‘vexatiously’ or ‘wholly unreasonably’ in bringing or contesting the appeal.

The adjudicator has no power to award compensation for any distress or anxiety arising from a person receiving a Penalty Charge Notice

If you wish to apply for costs and expenses, you must make a written application as soon as possible after the adjudicator's decision, setting out precisely what expenses you have incurred and why you have incurred them.

Your application for costs will then be referred to the adjudicator for a decision.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2025, 03:40:27 pm by stamfordman »

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #26 on: »
Full decision:

Not sure I fully appreciate the party "neither party attended" given I was told not to attend, but otherwise happy with the outcome.

Now on to applying for costs. Given it was frivolous to move to appeal out of principle I would like to apply for costs and £50 may be the extent of what I would be awarded but that's fine. I am also considering mentioning that I will donate the award to charity - would like to hear opinions on that.


Case Details
Case reference    2250279920
Appellant    Anna George
Authority    Royal Borough of Greenwich
VRM    GL11 DYG
PCN Details
PCN    GR23371040
Contravention date    -
Contravention time    -
Contravention location    -
Penalty amount    N/A
Contravention    -
Referral date    -
Decision Date    16 Aug 2025
Adjudicator    Louise Fisher
Appeal decision    Appeal allowed
Direction    

cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons    

    This is an appeal by Ms George (the Appellant) against a penalty charge notice (PCN) issued by the Enforcement Authority (EA), on the basis that the contravention did not occur.

    The appeal has been decided on the papers, neither party having attended the re-scheduled video hearing of which they were given notice on 12 August 2025.

    Notice of the original hearing was issued on 10 June 2025 and followed by a request from the Appellant on 5 August 2025 for a reschedule to today's date.

    It is the responsibility of the EA to demonstrate that there has been a contravention. If I am satisfied from the evidence that there may have been a contravention, then the responsibility moves to the Appellant to demonstrate that, on the balance of probabilities, it is more likely than not that one of the available grounds of appeal is satisfied.

    In the absence of the PCN, the EA has not provided any evidence to demonstrate that they have complied with their obligation to serve a PCN on the Appellant.

    I therefore find that the Appellant has no case to answer.

    It follows therefore that I allow the appeal.

    The Appellant having been successful in their appeal, there is no payment to be made.

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #27 on: »
I received a letter from Greenwich today.

Even when they lost the appeal, the still went down fighting! I mean they only had about 2 months to prepare some evidence...

I would have actually preferred to have had the hearing so a precedent could be set, and visible on the Tribunals website and the yellow box potentially removed.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2025, 10:57:47 am by ringzer »

Re: Greenwich - 31J Stopping in Yellow Box, Blackwall Lane SE10
« Reply #28 on: »
Of course, if they weren't so venal and rapacious and issue PCNs like confetti, they would have enough time, but they're obviously too thick and stupid to understand this.