Free Traffic Legal Advice

This seems pretty simple. Ealing councils own website of school streets says your exact point. (https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201146/neighbourhood_and_streets/2610/ealing_school_streets)

I’ve had a look at the ticket online and it appears you’ve submitted representations already. I assume you’ve outlined that it was an inset day etc.

If you get a notice of rejection, they’ll re offer the discounted rate. Come back here and show the rejection to get advice before just paying. There may be other members that can give advice on statutory grounds for appeal at tribunal.

My experience with Ealing council is that they can’t keep up with all the PCN rejections. My mother had a similar postal PCN and they’ve taken so long to reply that if they reject it, we can now take it to tribunal

Just got home to find the Notice of Rejection of Formal Representations waiting for me.

They have refused to take into account that I carried out a U-turn to exit the pedestrian zone just after entering it and that the school that the pedestrian zone covers was not back from its half term break because of an inset day.

What’s the next steps available to me apart from paying this ridiculous money making scheme?

The full penalty is £160, (double the £80)

The layout they have shown in their response shows a No Left Turn sign on Sherborne Gardens. Is that sign there, and if so, is it obscured by foliage ? If it isn't there, you can claim the signage is inadequate and fails to meet their duty in Regulation 18 (1)(a) of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

Passing the signs then immediately U-turning won't win at London Tribunals, it is the sign issue on Sherborne Gardens that will.

Thanks for your replies.

I have checked on google maps but the most up to date images do not show the No Left Turn sign on Sherborne Gardens. I spoke to my customer that lives in that area and he has sent me this photo from the approach to St Stephens Road from Sherborne Gardens.



I do not recall seeing that sign on the approach to the T junction, although I feel that it is located in the wrong place. I think it should be on St Stephens Road opposite the Sherborne Gardnes T Junction so when you come to a stop at the junction the sign is directly in front of you and easier to see.

Do you think that is grounds for a win at tribunal? @Incandescent

The sign is clear but the timings aren't IMO.

OP, your customer is no David Bailey. The No Left Turn sign lower panel is out of focus. Does it state word for word what's on the middle and lower panels of the main signs?

Have you looked at the council's video? It shows you moving at the junction presumably having stopped previously. You are close to the nearside kerb and the left-hand sign would be invisible unless your car is LHD. The question is then how visible and readable is the sign on the right. I suspect it's not clear. These signs are for head-on traffic primarily IMO. From your direction they have placed a No Left Turn sign. Does this convey exactly the same restriction as the main signs?

This is the prescribed sign, Item 2 Part 2 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8

The sign must convey what's in the TMO.
The sign may not indicate 'term time only' in the middle panel, the permitted variants are specified in the regs.
If it says Mon-Fri 2-4pm for example, then these MUST be the restricted times.

So IMO:
Either the TMO supports the hours given without exception, or it doesn't.

If yes, then the street is restricted for those hours irrespective of school days. If the authority chooses to not enforce during certain periods then I don't know whether this is grounds for appeal, it's certainly the basis for a complaint to the council.

If not, then the sign is improper and fails the LATOR test IMO.

The sign is clear but the timings aren't IMO.

OP, your customer is no David Bailey. The No Left Turn sign lower panel is out of focus. Does it state word for word what's on the middle and lower panels of the main signs?

Have you looked at the council's video? It shows you moving at the junction presumably having stopped previously. You are close to the nearside kerb and the left-hand sign would be invisible unless your car is LHD. The question is then how visible and readable is the sign on the right. I suspect it's not clear. These signs are for head-on traffic primarily IMO. From your direction they have placed a No Left Turn sign. Does this convey exactly the same restriction as the main signs?

This is the prescribed sign, Item 2 Part 2 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8

The sign must convey what's in the TMO.
The sign may not indicate 'term time only' in the middle panel, the permitted variants are specified in the regs.
If it says Mon-Fri 2-4pm for example, then these MUST be the restricted times.

So IMO Either the TMO supports the hours given without exception, or it doesn't.

If yes, then the street is restricted for those hours irrespective of school days. If the authority chooses to not enforce during certain periods then I don't know whether this is grounds for appeal, it's certainly the basis for a complaint to the council.

If not, then the sign is improper and fails the LATOR test IMO.

The NLT sign doesn’t state word for word what is on the main signs, its just NLT Mon-Fri 0800-0845 & 1445-1600 Except Cyclists and Term Time Only is not listed on any of the signs.

My car is RHD and I don’t recall seeing the NLT sign nor the left hand positioned main signs. I noticed the main sign positioned on the right hand side of St Stephens Road but didn’t have time to read it before committing the contravention and that’s why I stopped and turned around just after entering St Stephens Road to go back and read the sign.

As before I think the NLT sign should be on St Stephens Road opposite the junction so when traffic prepares to come to a stop at the junction it directly in front of you.

As before I think the NLT sign should be on St Stephens Road opposite the junction

Pl stop writing this. It's not your task to suggest where what appears to be an incorrect sign should be sited.

Item 8, Part 2 table to Schedule 3 conveys the meaning:

No left turn for vehicular traffic

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/3


A bicycle is a 'vehicle' and is permitted to turn left!

So what you’re saying is the NLT sign has been used incorrectly?
If that’s the case what sign should be there?
And is that grounds for a successful tribunal appeal?