Author Topic: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)  (Read 4144 times)

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Firstly, I just discovered this forum so unfortunately have already challenged this and had it denied. Details are below.

All images including PCN images, Notice of decline of challenge letter, my images of position of car at time of PCN, google map showing the area.
https://imgur.com/a/qiultro

As you can see in the images, my wheels are pretty much inline with the curb, any closer and my cars at risk of being sideswiped (this happened to my van a year ago). Additionally, the markings for the bay parallel to the road are non existent or in poor condition. Their pictures conveniently didn’t include images closest to the road (these are attached). This road is a residents permit area of which I am a holder of. I'm aware of the blue sign showing half the car on the pavement and half on the road. With this being a single yellow line, I'm unsure if parking like this would be allowed. My family has NEVER seen cars parked half on the pavement in the 20+ years theyve lived here, so I would be hesitant to be the first person doing so, considering this is a fairly busy road.

If we’re going to be pedantic, their resident permit policy states vehicles over 1.83m in width are not permitted. Curbstone to paver this bay measures 1.825m. The inside of the curb to paver measures 1.67m. I was approx 20cm over the supposed bay. There’s 1.7m of pavement still left, not causing a hindrance to pedestrians. We have been parking in bays on this road for 20 years+, never had a problem until this PCN was served. I have a feeling this was done as they have recently resurfaced this and local roads including the white parking bay lines, although these have not been painted on this road yet, so are still in poor condition.

Any guidance on whether this is worth taking further to tribunal, or if I am indeed in the wrong, would be appreciated

Many thanks

K
« Last Edit: September 18, 2025, 10:13:05 pm by miirder »

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I think if it was me, I would be taking them to adjudication, because the sign is clear, parking where you parked is permitted off-carriageway. There is nothing on the sign to demand you park in a marked bay, and I suspect the resolution that the council MUST pass to allow off-carriageway parking will probably only name the street and nothing else.
Their letter is also complete tosh because they say off-carriageway parking is not permitted at this location when it quite clearly is.  I suspect if you register an appeal with London Tribunals they will not contest it, but you'll only find out if you take the matter forward. 
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Post the PCN and your challenge.

What is the Google Maps location.

Looks like nonsense as they say footway parking is not allowed at this location so have just sent a template.

Have you posted all the council pics?

The sign suggests 2-wheel up parking on the footway but the yellow line rules that out so the all wheel up bay looks like what it is.

So no contravention.







« Last Edit: September 19, 2025, 01:28:55 pm by stamfordman »
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IMO...

I'd love for this to get to adjudication!

OP, I'll break down the absolute nonsense of the markings and signs.

1. Let's take the footway parking sign ahead. In combination sith the left-facing arrow this means that, subject to other prevailing limitations, parking of vehs of no more than '1750kg unladen' may park with 2 wheels on the footway.


2. Now for the parking place markings. Item 6 of the Part 4 sign table of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regs means that the 'edge of carriageway' may be used to indicate one of the longitudinal boundaries of a parking place.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7

In addition, the traffic sign used is of the form prescribed at Item 2 of Part 4 of Schedule 4 to the Regs and states that parking is permitted for permit holders between the hours of Mon-Sat 10am-8pm and Sun 2pm-8pm.

It is NOT the item prescribed at Item 3.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4

3. Now for the yellow line. This indicates that waiting, which includes parking, is not permitted from the back of the building line, including the footway(where the so-called parking place is located) to the centre-line of the road. This is within a CPZ whose restrictions are Mon-Sat 10am-8pm, Sun 2pm-8pm. Now where have I seen these hours before??

So, in combination we have:

A parking place whose boundaries are described by one set of longitudinal white markings, one set of perpendicular white markings and the kerb representing the edge of the carriageway. There are NO markings on the carriageway.

Therefore IF a motorist parks wholly within the markings, which they must, then they are IN CONTRAVENTION because the parking traffic sign does NOT permit parking on the footway and therefore the prevailing restriction is the 2-wheel footway parking sign which applies 24/7, BUT YOU HAVE TO PARK WITH 4 WHEELS TO STAY WITHIN THE MARKINGS!

Then we have the yellow line which prohibits parking for all the hours referred to in the traffic sign anyway!

The only lawful outcome is that NO-ONE can park wholly within the markings between the specified hours and that anyone may park a vehicle of no more than 1750kg unladen weight with 2 wheels only within the parking place during unspecified hours.

As most medium-sized electric vehicles tip the scales at more than 1750kg as do many IC-engined vehicles then these aren't permitted on the footway at all and would have to park wholly in the road.

And it looks like this nonsense has persisted for years.

Hey ho!
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Post the PCN and your challenge.

What is the Google Maps location. https://maps.app.goo.gl/VxJbD7V3iYCDCB9B6

Looks like nonsense as they say footway parking is not allowed at this location so have just sent a template.

Have you posted all the council pics? All 6 of the council pictures are in the imgur gallery

The sign suggests 2-wheel up parking on the footway but the yellow line rules that out so the all wheel up bay looks like what it is.

So no contravention.

My challenge is in the imgur gallery as are all 6 of the council pictures

« Last Edit: September 23, 2025, 06:44:45 pm by miirder »

IMO...

I'd love for this to get to adjudication!

OP, I'll break down the absolute nonsense of the markings and signs.

Thank you for the in depth explanation. From what I understand, Ealing dont have a leg to stand on, as their own signs and markings contradict eachother. What would the next steps for me to take? It looks like going off the letter, I have to wait 28 days for a notice to owner to be sent to me, which I them have to submit a formal representation. Is this typically done in person in a court setting? Do I need to contact a lawyer?

Many thanks

This is the enforcement process:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process

Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?

If so, simply wait for the NTO and we'll help you draft formal representations.

Don't forget, the authority is still 'judge in its own cause' so be prepared for General Melchett to respond i.e. 'If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.' AKA do you expect the council to change years of administrative practice and pay to remedy its signage debacle just because of your reps?

So, reps rejected; appeal lodged; authority doesn't contest; you win AND then they carry on in their ill-informed, unlawful and merry way to penalise more motorists.

Truth IS stranger than fiction.

No, you don't need to pay for a lawyer. It does not go to court, but the traffic penalty tribunal. There's some splendid volunteers here who may offer to represent you.

In one of the council pics there is what appears to be a yellow sign taped or cable tied to a post. could that be a notice suspending parking in that area?
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

This is the enforcement process:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process

Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?

If so, simply wait for the NTO and we'll help you draft formal representations.

Don't forget, the authority is still 'judge in its own cause' so be prepared for General Melchett to respond i.e. 'If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.' AKA do you expect the council to change years of administrative practice and pay to remedy its signage debacle just because of your reps?

So, reps rejected; appeal lodged; authority doesn't contest; you win AND then they carry on in their ill-informed, unlawful and merry way to penalise more motorists.

Truth IS stranger than fiction.

I am the registered keeper yes. Its weird as mentioned before, my family has been parking like this for 20+ years, never got a ticket until now. I will keep an eye out for the NTO and will post an update when I recieve it.

Thanks

No, you don't need to pay for a lawyer. It does not go to court, but the traffic penalty tribunal. There's some splendid volunteers here who may offer to represent you.

In one of the council pics there is what appears to be a yellow sign taped or cable tied to a post. could that be a notice suspending parking in that area?

Thanks for the reply. I will look into representation when the time comes.

The yellow sign would be a planning permission thing, where the council notifies local residents of proposed building works where they can object etc, I often see them on lamposts near me. It is defintely not a suspended parking sign.

Thanks


If so, simply wait for the NTO and we'll help you draft formal representations.


Hi, thank you all so far for all of the help you've given me. I have just recieved an NTO in the post a few days ago. Is there a preferred way of submitting formal representations? I'd appreciate some help drafting a letter or whatever you may suggest.

Many thanks

K

Please post up all sides of the NtO (only redact yr name & address - leave all else in).


I'm sure Mr Andersen will chip in here but this can be made simple - footway parking is signed in this location contrary to the rejection that says it is not allowed there - or complicated if the dog's dinner is addressed.

I'm sure Mr Andersen will chip in here but this can be made simple - footway parking is signed in this location contrary to the rejection that says it is not allowed there - or complicated if the dog's dinner is addressed.

Hi Stamford,

Are there any resources on here with which I can draft formal representations?

Thanks