Author Topic: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge  (Read 105 times)

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roythebus

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Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« on: April 12, 2025, 08:12:23 pm »
My car was issue with a PCN this afternoon for parking contravention code 83. A valid disabled Blue Badge was correctly displayed in the windscreen and had been parked in a marked disabled bayfor about 3 hours.

The PCN shows the VRN as DV60xxx, make Mercedes, colour: silver.

DV60xxx is actually a Range Rover TDV8, and is grey.

P&D ticket no: blank,, expiry time blank.

I'll try to copy the PCN later or tomorrow morning, it's been a hectic few days for me.

The only notice at the entrance to the car park refers users to a sign at the P&D machine, some distance away from the disabled bay. Access to that sign was difficult so neither the driver or disabled badge holder were able to read the sign due to poor access.

Does the fact that the car make and colour are wrong give rise to "no offence committed"?
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

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H C Andersen

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2025, 09:02:19 pm »
My car was issue with a PCN this afternoon for parking contravention code 83. A valid disabled Blue Badge was correctly displayed in the windscreen

That's fine then!

Clearly the CEO thought not. So why might this have been?

You seem to be trying to slip in all the counter arguments e.g. approx. 3 hours, not able to read the signs dur to poor access etc.

But these aren't relevant!

3 hours is on on-street, not car park, issue; not able to read signs is a private parking issue.

The driver KNEW to display a BB, otherwise why did they bother?

Post the PCN, photos and the car park Ts and Cs pl.

roythebus

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2025, 09:15:56 pm »
https://ibb.co/6ctrJ4xC
https://ibb.co/v5Q8p0V
https://ibb.co/5XsWNz32
https://ibb.co/TMdFJ3nR

The RK will try to get pics of the T&Cs tomorrow. It's a council-run car park. Parking in a disabled bay with the badge holder in the car, it's sensible to display the BB and clock in the windscreen as proscribed.

I read this morning of the time limit of 3 hours on DYL and SYL, no mention of time limit in a council car park. Quite why the CEO should want to differ, who knows? He can't tell the difference between a Merc and a Range Rover.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 09:22:10 pm by roythebus »
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

H C Andersen

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2025, 09:55:20 pm »
it's sensible to display the BB and clock in the windscreen as proscribed.

'Sensible' don't enter into it! It's either required or it isn't.

GSV and photos show traffic signs specified in respect of ON STREET disabled parking places therefore prima facie have no meaning and even less legal purpose in a car park UNLESS brought into effect by the Ts and Cs.

Hence their importance.

roythebus

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2025, 09:04:17 am »
Thanks, I'll get the T&Cs checked out later, i've got someone going there this afternoon.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

baroudeur

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2025, 01:02:30 pm »
Ashford car parks Blue Badge Parking


If no disabled bay is available in the car park you may park in any standard bay and still benefit from three  hours free parking

You need to display your blue badge and time clock, set to the time of arrival

In all cases, if you are staying for longer than three hours, you must pay for parking for the entirety of your stay


Note exceeding three hours requires payment for the whole period of parking.  Perhaps this was the reason for the PCN?
   

roythebus

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2025, 02:16:07 am »
Possibly, it takes people with disabilities a bit longer to get round places than expected. But then the Blue Badge and clock were clearly displayed. The contravention code is wrong. Had there been an intention to stay longer than the permitted time of 3 hours then a ticket would have been bought. Ashford apparently has scheme for BB residents for an annual permit to park for longer than 3 hours. It may be worth the investement when the BB is renewed later this year.

I did have a look online earlier on, but not had time to post on here as work got in the way.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2025, 02:19:35 am by roythebus »
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

H C Andersen

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2025, 07:31:11 am »
From what's been gleaned IMO the code is correct and the contravention proved.

BB displayed showing a time of 11.15. This would be taken as the time of arrival.

Car still parked at 14.42, 3 hours 27 mins later.

BB holders, whether in apparently dedicated BB or in general bays, are entitled to 3 hours' free parking after which a P&D ticket must be purchased.

P&D required after 14.26(allowing for 10-minute 'grace' period)

No P&D visible at 14.42, hence code 83.

Is my take.

Perhaps the actual Ts and Cs will throw a different light on matters?

roythebus

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2025, 06:53:13 pm »
Seems like I've been captured then despite the car make being incorrect. Possibly worth an initial appeal, at least make them some work for their money. :)
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

H C Andersen

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Re: Council car park, Ashford Kent Blue Badge
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2025, 08:05:21 am »
Are photos of the Ts and Cs available?

Looking at procedure, IMO the PCN is flawed and appeals have been won on the error.

The regs:
(7) A penalty charge notice given under this regulation must include the information set out in—

(a)Schedule 2, and

(b)regulation 3(1) of the 2022 Appeals Regulations.


(from the Appeals Regs)

Information about right to make representations or appeal to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;

(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;

(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.


Where's 3(1)(c)?

What happens if a response is not received by the person making reps before the end of the 28-day period and a NTO is served on the owner?

The PCN must contain the unambiguous and mandatory warning to the effect that, notwithstanding any previous representations, if a NTO is served then the recipient(owner) MUST respond to the NTO.

Not may respond or to wait for a response to the initial reps, but must respond.

As written here the PCN sets a condition i.e. if the PCN has not been paid fully or successfully challenged with the 28-day period ..., but this is meaningless if the authority hasn't responded within this period!

Wait for other views.

EDIT: you should look at the East Lindsey Council thread for how the wording should appear.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 11:49:08 am by H C Andersen »