3. City of Westminster PCN
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City of Westminster PCN
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Hi,

hope all is well. Are there any grounds of appeal for the following PCN?

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1902-PCN hosted at ImgBB
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https://ibb.co/WztSGFN
https://ibb.co/XYCHDLD
https://ibb.co/RyfxzZR

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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
Is this all you are going to tell us, because at the moment, you look bang-to-rights, so some narrative, please.

So you were in this bay: -
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl

outside No 39 possibly. The sign states it is for resident permit holders only Mon-Sun 8.30 am to 8.30 pm, 'B'permits. Your PCN is timed at 10.03, well within the restriction period.

As you presumably have no resident permit, any reason you parked there ? Did you read what the sign said ?
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on February 26, 2024, 11:10:51 pm
Is this all you are going to tell us, because at the moment, you look bang-to-rights, so some narrative, please.

So you were in this bay: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cmCsr4xdXYxB8rkX9
outside No 39 possibly. The sign states it is for resident permit holders only Mon-Sun 8.30 am to 8.30 pm, 'B'permits. Your PCN is timed at 10.03, well within the restriction period.

As you presumably have no resident permit, any reason you parked there ? Did you read what the sign said ?

I was staying at the hotel outside of this bay. I had checked in at a later time (2PM) but was loading luggage to the hotel at this time as it was a emergency booking. I was going to originally appeal on the loading exemption of two luggage's but wanted to see if there is any other grounds I could appeal on

Representation draft :

To whom it may concern,

I appeal this PCN on the basis I was loading luggage into Signature Townhouse London, Hyde Park Hotel, 36-37 Lancaster Gate, London, W2 3NA. If the officer had observed the bay for any time they would have witnessed this.

I will attach to this appeal a witness statement from my partner and evidence of booking for the hotel.

I ask that this PCN is cancelled under the heavy loading exemption.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2024, 05:06:13 am by privates »
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
I don't know what has happened but I seem to have posted the wrong GSV link; sorry !!
so: -
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl

The hotel comes up on GSV, and if you look, there is a yellow line at the corner, between the two parking bays. You could have stopped there to unload your luggage, although you'd have probably got a PCN, but there is the loading exemption for yellow lines. The TRO that has established the parking bays may also have an exemption for loading and also for boarding/alighting passengers, so you are correct in emphasising the unloading activity.

So where did you eventually park having got the PCN ?
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
The other thing that came to my mind after my last reply was that as a resident parking bay, the hotel should have a facility to issue visitor permits to hotel guests so they can park in the resident bay.  These can be either cardboard scratch cards or virtual visitor permits. A permit is normally for one day, so one needed per days of hotel stay.  Of course, these would be chargeable.
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Multiple choice issue re PCN description.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=90145
« Last Edit: February 28, 2024, 02:14:49 pm by Hippocrates »
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on February 28, 2024, 10:09:03 am
The other thing that came to my mind after my last reply was that as a resident parking bay, the hotel should have a facility to issue visitor permits to hotel guests so they can park in the resident bay.  These can be either cardboard scratch cards or virtual visitor permits. A permit is normally for one day, so one needed per days of hotel stay.  Of course, these would be chargeable.

This was not the case unfortunately as when asked they had asked me to park the vehicle in a Q-Car park which is 0.8 miles away. This also has nothing to do with the hotel but is the closest car park.

I had parked right infront of where the google maps view shows on the link. In the PCN pictures there is a vehicle behind mine, that is where the entrance to the hotel is.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 04:51:50 pm by privates »
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
Apart from a PCN content error, the other avenue is to check the TRO for Lancaster Gate to see if loading is an exemption in the resident permit bays. However, why not submit representations that you were unloading luggage to the hotel prior to moving the car to <car park you used> .  Point out the nature of the luggage was far too heavy and bulky to carry from the car park which was nearly a mile away. Post your draft here for review, thne submit it,  and also their response when you get it
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on February 29, 2024, 07:47:19 pm
Apart from a PCN content error, the other avenue is to check the TRO for Lancaster Gate to see if loading is an exemption in the resident permit bays. However, why not submit representations that you were unloading luggage to the hotel prior to moving the car to <car park you used> .  Point out the nature of the luggage was far too heavy and bulky to carry from the car park which was nearly a mile away. Post your draft here for review, thne submit it,  and also their response when you get it


To whom it may concern,

I appeal this PCN on the basis I was loading heavy luggage into Signature Townhouse London, Hyde Park Hotel, 36-37 Lancaster Gate, London, W2 3NA. If the officer had observed the bay for any time they would have witnessed this. The luggage was far to heavy to carry from where I had parked my vehicle which was near to a mile away. It would have been impossible for me to carry the luggage from where I had parked the car to the hotel, for this reason I had load my heavy luggage from outside the hotel.

I will attach to this appeal a witness statement from my partner and evidence of booking for the hotel.

I ask that this PCN is cancelled under the heavy loading exemption.

Thank you.
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
Looks OK.
This is of course, just an informal challenge, so they'll probably send you the usual Fob-Off letter. Post their reply when you get it.
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
Screenshot-2024-03-04-234525 hosted at ImgBB
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They don't even show challenge tabs anymore on City of Wesministers lol.. There reasons for appeal are all wrong too.
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
Hang on a minute, looks like another ticket scam.  You can park in residents bays to unload/load.

This pasted from Westminster Council website :

Private vehicles

    single and double yellow lines 8.30am to 11am: as long as necessary
    single and double yellow lines 11am to 6.30pm: 20 minutes
    single yellow lines 6.30pm to 8.30am: unlimited
    double yellow lines 6.30pm to 08.30am: as long as necessary
    Pay to Park and resident bays during controlled hours: 20 minutes
    Pay to Park and resident bays outside of controlled hours (always check signs for controlled hours): unlimited

Private vehicle owners can only stop to load and unload where the items are too bulky or heavy to be carried from the nearest available parking space

Original Link is here:

Loading and unloading | Westminster City Council
A guide to loading and unloading rules for businesses.
westminster.gov.uk

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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
@privates with the best will in the world, knowing all the problems you have with the post, WTF is going on with this one?



Have you challenged the notice to owner?

If not, make a representation right this second. As I've told you previously a PCN with your name on it is your responsibility and I fear that if you take a relaxed approach you could end up with another trip to the car pound.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2024, 06:37:49 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: City of Westminster PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on March 25, 2024, 06:36:10 pm
@privates with the best will in the world, knowing all the problems you have with the post, WTF is going on with this one?



Have you challenged the notice to owner?

If not, make a representation right this second. As I've told you previously a PCN with your name on it is your responsibility and I fear that if you take a relaxed approach you could end up with another trip to the car pound.

I thought I had appealed this but it seems so I haven't. I will do now.. I am definitely not going through that again
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  3. City of Westminster PCN