Author Topic: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb  (Read 133 times)

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confused-z

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Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« on: April 02, 2024, 05:48:34 pm »
Dear Team,

A driver went out on a Sunday and parked on a yellow line. As it was a Sunday then the yellow line was not active and many other vehicles were parked on yellow lines. But the driver had also parked partially across a drop kerb, which is not a drop kerb to a driveway, but for the public who are using the footpath and need smooth access when moving across the footpath to the road i.e. for push chairs, scooters etc.

A sneaky traffic warden on a moped was traveling around the area, and had just left the road, but must have saw the driver just park up so returned in less than 30 seconds once the driver had left the vehicle. They issued a PCN and we was wondering if there is any chance of appealing this PCN? Below is a copy of the PCN and some of the photo's taken by the traffic warden. The driver did take some pictures themselves, so let us know if any additional angles are needed?

PCN issued.



Photo's taken by the traffic warden.




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Incandescent

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2024, 07:04:12 pm »
The contravention seems to be made out if one looks at the last photo, where the dropped kerb on the opposite side is visible as well as the one where the car is.

I had a quick look at the PCN, and it all seems OK

Not the best parking, is it, being right on the corner ?

cp8759

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2024, 12:18:58 am »
Firstly for statutory PCNs liability rests with the owner, so there's no point in hiding the driver's identity and in fact doing so can backfire. So, if you were the driver please say so.

Please give us the PCN number and number plate, as we need to see the CEO's photos.

Also please confirm if the car is registered to you and you have the V5C.

Lastly please tell us if there is any meaningful mitigation that can be advanced, even if it is unrelated to how the vehicle was parked on the day.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

confused-z

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2024, 04:00:05 pm »
@Incandescent

Yes, I agree it was a poor decision to park so close to the corner. There was space on the main road but parking there would have impeded traffic on this busy main road, generally causing only traffic to flow one direction whilst the other side has to wait, which in turn causes traffic to build up. So I thought it was better to park on the side road as it wouldn't have caused any traffic to build up in this manner. And I couldn't find a more suitable place for parking on the side road without having to drive quite a distance away, so I thought this option was just within the limits of acceptability.

confused-z

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2024, 04:10:10 pm »
@cp8759

Yes, I was driving, I thought I was just following the forum to not identify myself but maybe that is for speeding tickets and not parking tickets.

I am also the registered keeper and I have the V5C.

I don't have any meaningful reason for parking that I could provide.

The photos uploaded are the CEO' photo's. There are a few more which just show that the parking ticket has been placed under the windscreen wipers to prove that the CEO did leave a ticket, but I didn't think that was relevant to upload. I'm not at home so I don't have the PCN number to hand but I can provide this if you really do think there is something worth checking further there.

cp8759

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2024, 12:10:32 am »
Yes, I was driving, I thought I was just following the forum to not identify myself but maybe that is for speeding tickets and not parking tickets.
No that guidance is just for private parking tickets. For speeding you can't usually hire the driver's identity from the authorities (this is almost inevitably a crime in itself) and for council matters it's irrelevant as the owner is liable regardless of who was driving.

I don't have any meaningful reason for parking that I could provide.
What about something unrelated to the parking, such as bad personal news / life events of whatever description?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

confused-z

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2024, 05:52:22 am »
I do have some personal issues but its quite sensitive to me so I'm not sure if I want to bleed my heart out to the council as in someways it might cheapen this situation that my family and I are facing. I'll mention it here just to see your thoughts.

After trying for many years, my wife became pregnant about 5 months ago via IVF treatment which is amazing. The pregnancy was going well, but last month during a scan they detected that the baby is really undersized which jeopardises the chances of survival considerably. My wife and I are understandable upset and anxious and we've been referred to UCLH as they have the best prenatal care there. We are now having weekly scans to check the baby's progress and I admit that I am in a daze and just praying everyday to God for the best outcome.

It's a worrying situation but as you can imagine I'm not sure I want to use my baby's excuse just to get out of a ticket as that maybe feels like I'm making light of a serious situation.

cp8759

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2024, 10:04:11 pm »
What you mention is not a legal defence, but it is compelling personal mitigation.

When Parliament enacted the regulations for representations against PCN, it legislated that:

(2) The representations must be—

(a)made in the form determined by the enforcement authority, and

(b) to either or both of the following effects—
(i) that in relation to the alleged contravention, one or more of the grounds specified in paragraph (4) apply;
(ii) that, whether or not any of those grounds apply, there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the enforcement authority should cancel the penalty charge and refund any sum paid to it on account of the penalty charge.


The purpose of regulation 2(b)(ii) is to cater for things such as personal mitigation of the sort you describe. This is not a question of using something as an excuse, it is a provision specifically created because there will inevitably be circumstances that are not a legal defence but where nonetheless the council should cancel the penalty.

In the circumstances, my recommendation is to draft a representation based on what you've told us. There is no guarantee the council will accept it, but you are entirely justified in putting it to them and letting them make a decision.

I would suggest you type up a draft and put it on here for review in the first instance.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2024, 10:06:07 pm by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Incandescent

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2024, 12:29:20 am »
Just to let you know that we went through the IVF process in 1989, and our lovely daughter was the result, but there was a lot of mental anguish along the way. Even with good news, when we received the good news of pregnancy, I still cannot remember anything of the 40 mile drive home from the clinic !

SO very good luck with your representations
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confused-z

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2024, 09:51:59 pm »
Thank for your advice and kind words. I put the details in ChatGPT and get the following letter. I recall one of your members mentioning that ChatGPT wasn't the best place to write a letter but let me know your thoughts.

Subject: Appeal for Car Parking Ticket Issued on [Date]

Dear [Parking Authority],

I am writing to appeal the parking ticket I received on [Date] for parking across a lowered verge to meet the carriage way. While I understand that there may not be a legal challenge to this violation, I hope you will consider the personal circumstances that led to my poor judgment.

Approximately five months ago, my wife and I were overjoyed to learn that she was pregnant after years of trying, thanks to IVF treatment. However, our joy has been overshadowed by recent complications. During a routine scan last month, it was discovered that our baby is severely undersized, significantly jeopardizing its chances of survival. As a result, we have been referred to UCLH for specialized prenatal care, requiring weekly scans to monitor the baby's progress.

Understandably, this situation has left us both deeply upset and anxious. Every day is a struggle, filled with prayers for the best possible outcome. On the day in question, I was rushing to attend the mosque to seek solace and guidance through prayer, as it is the only source of hope I have during this challenging time.

In my haste and emotional state, I made the regrettable decision to park in a location that I believed to be adequate. I recognize that it was a poor choice to park so close to the corner, and I apologize for any inconvenience caused. However, I believed that parking on the main road would impede traffic flow, as it is a busy thoroughfare, potentially causing further disruptions and delays.

I searched for alternative parking spots on the side road but was unable to find a more suitable location without having to drive a significant distance away. Given the circumstances and my desire to minimize disruption, I believed that the spot I chose was within the limits of acceptability.

I fully acknowledge my mistake and assure you that it was not made out of disregard for the parking regulations but rather due to the overwhelming circumstances weighing heavily on my mind. I kindly request your understanding and compassion in reconsidering this parking ticket.

Thank you for taking the time to review my appeal. I sincerely hope for a favorable outcome, as I continue to navigate through this difficult period in my life.

Sincerely,
[Your Name]

Incandescent

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2024, 12:35:17 am »
It looks OK to me. CP8759 may want to comment, so don't submit just yet but be mindful of the deadline to submit and retain the discount if rejected.

confused-z

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2024, 04:07:22 am »
Thank you. I'm just trying to figure out when the 14 days has elapsed. I receive the ticket on a Sunday 2 weeks ago so have I missed the chance to get the discount if I appeal today (Monday)? Or is Monday the last day? Or if I have missed the discounted period, then should I wait for the NTO to come through the post which should give me a chance to get the discount again?

Incandescent

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2024, 10:23:39 am »
I would submit your reps now and post up their response when you get it. If they reject them, and don't reoffer the discount, then you just wait for the Notice to Owner in the normal course of events.

cp8759

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Re: Chingford PCN for partially parking near a drop-kerb
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2024, 06:20:24 pm »
Change lowered verge to lowered kerb, I would also add the address of the mosque you were going to (specifics are always best). Other than that you're good to go, just make sure to upload any relevant medical evidence (appointment letters etc).
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order