Free Traffic Legal Advice

The person driving is not from Wales and going to a concert which meant the place they were planning to park was closed off to traffic. A horrendously busy evening on the roads in an unknown city, trying to take in all the signs and avoid bus lanes, be safe to pedestrians etc to find somewhere to park.
Now received a PCN for turning off a two lane one way street into a car park, at a road point that merges as a two way street just at car park entrance, with a left turn road maybe 8 to 10 metres from car park entrance ahead.
The area is badly signed, and not efficient, you cant see any signs as you come round the bend, so no advance warning until on top of area.
800 people were caught doing this same turn in one week according to the news.
The driver would have seen coming round the bend, to a unknown area, pedestrian crossing to watch, no sign on right visible as angled funny, you see the car park, then  seeing ahead youre taking in the change of road layout too a 2 way street and layout ahead where cars can also turn into car park now in front one two lane traffic.  The left "no left" turn sign also angled would have been thought to be for the left turn road shortly ahead, as it merged as a two way street, but still had two lanes, one ahead, one road going to the left on the corner of car park building.
So driver would thought this sign was warning for this left road turn metres ahead, so people can get in correct lane for straight on. Never no left turn into that car park.
There was no "no entry sign" to the car park entrance facing the one way street drivers,  making it clear it meant no entry to the car park and not the left turn shortly ahead? 
Cannot see a reason why there would be no left turn into this car park, as safer than the opposite direction turning right into it and causing traffic queues?.
So cant see any sense as to why a no left turn would not be allowed into this car park at all.
Obviously that is the rule with this one way street, having been one driver of probably thousands now surely highlights signage is not adequate.
Feel it clearly needs a "no entry" angled sign clearly highlighting to people coming from the left at the entrance of the car park. I cant see any new person to the area knowing this "no left sign" is pertaining to the car park and not the left road a few metres away.
Hopefully added the coordinates below. Be grateful if someone could advise would be very grateful. Thankyou

https://maps.app.goo.gl/C6dSE3Rh6W42WuTy9

Yes I did read it first, sorry I did the best I could from mu understanding of it. what did I do wrong? I think back page was missing as wouldnt add. someone did redacting for me so not sure whats missing. ill add 2nd page

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

IMO, there's no contravention.

IMO, the use of the regulatory sign in evidence prohibits a turn into a ROAD. I don't believe that the entrance to the car park is a road. The correct sign would be diagram 606, vehicular traffic must proceed in the direction shown (in this case) straight ahead.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

Page 27.

Thanks very much guys for your help, so so appreciate it. People have said they had their PCN dropped by council in the past at this point, so Im sure it will be for your reason and help. I will let you know. Thanks again

Thankyou for advice in advance , this is what we thought,

"The alleged contravention refers to a "No Left Turn (50L)", and is based on the use of a standard regulatory sign.

However, the "No Left Turn" sign is only lawful when used to indicate a prohibition into a road, not a private entrance or car park access. In this case, the sign is placed at a point just before a private car park entrance, with a road junction clearly visible approximately 8–10 metres ahead. The sign therefore communicates to the road user that a left turn into the next visible road is prohibited.

This is significant because:

A driver would reasonably interpret the sign as applying to the road ahead, not to any nearby access or entrance,
The use of this sign to enforce a restriction on turning into a car park or non-public road would be contrary to the sign’s legal purpose under the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD),
There is no indication on the approach that a car park turn is being restricted or that a different restriction applies.
In this case, the council appears to be enforcing the sign against vehicles turning before the actual road junction, into what appears to be a private or service access. That would be outside the lawful use of this sign, and any enforcement based on that interpretation is therefore legally flawed.I respectfully request that PCN QC88006995 be cancelled on the grounds that:

The signage used does not lawfully apply to the car park turn being enforced,
The PCN lacks sufficient legal clarity to be enforceable,

Draft response on last post 30th July for comment as requested.

Thankyou

Your draft looks OK to me

Recieved a response from cardiff council which I beleive is

Poor letter, grammar and discriminatory response received from Cardiff council refusing to cancel the PCN
As copied below.


Dear
CARDIFF
CAERDYDD
Date: 24/09/2025
NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATIONS
The Traffic Management Act 2004
Date of Notice: 24 September 2025
Vehicle Registration: WG64UFY
PCN Number: QC88006995 Issued on: 16 July 2025
Contravention: Performing a prohibited turn (No left turn)
Date of Contravention: 04 July 2025
Time of Contravention: 19:00
Location: Hayes Bridge Road Junc/With John Lewis Car Park
Ihave considered your representations received ni respect of the above Penalty Charge
Notice. On this occasion Iam satisfied that there are insufficient reasons to cancel the
Penalty Charge. This letter explains the details of the penalty issued, my reasons for
rejecting your representations and your options.
Take a moment to carefully read through AL the sections in this letter (listed
below) before you decide what to do next.
Under the Traffic Management Act 2004 the above vehicle was served with a Penalty
Charge Notice for performing a prohibited turn (No left turn).
No vehicles are permitted to make a left-hand turn into the John Lewis Car Park from
Hayes Bridge Road, for any reason. Clear regulatory signs indicate this restriction and
there are no exemptions for any class of vehicle to perform a left-hand turn at this location,
for any reason. The CCTV footage shows your vehicle performing a prohibited turn against
the instructions of the clear regulatory signs. I am therefore satisfied that the above
Penalty Charge Notice was correctly served.
I note the comments you have made ni your representations. You have stated that the
signage used does not lawfully apply to the turn being enforced, that the PCN lacks
sufficient legal clarity to be enforceable, and that reasonable adjustments must be made to
ensure you can engage fairly ni this process.
0581 NGAGE
17079897



The kerb on the left hand side of the carriageway (highlighted in the photograph) has also been extended and designed to deter entry to the car park from this direction, as it is not permitted.
the Council is satisfied that when taken as a whole the signs are sufficient to denote the restriction inaccordance with Regulation 18 of the Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
It is worth adding that fi the police observed your vehicle performing a prohibited turn, this could be classed as failure to comply with a traffic sign and as such, would result ni a fixed penalty charge notice being issued by the police and penalty points being added to your licence.
In relation to your comments requesting further time to respond to correspondence, Imust advise there are legislative timeframes associated with a Notice, these are ni place for al appellants and as such they must be adhered ot by al appellants.
Al appeals received wil be responded to within the legislative timeframes as dictated by the Act of Parliament by a qualified, experienced officer. The cost of a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) wil increase fi a motorist does not pay or appeal against it, in accordance with legislation.
For further guidance on the legal process please visit www.patrol-uk.info This website provides information about the enforcement of parking notices as well as parking and bus lane regulations for councils ni England (outside London) and Wales that are in the Civil Enforcement Scheme.
As I am satisfied that a clear contravention occurred in this instance, the decision has been made not to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. This decision has only been sent to you ni letter form, as requested.
You now have two options:
1) Pay the Penalty Charge Notice
The amount of £35.00 wil be accepted only fi payment si made within 21 days from the date of this letter. Once this period has expired the ful Penalty Charge of £70.00 wil then be due.
Payment can be made:
• Online at
www.cardif.gov.uk.
• By telephone Credit / debit card payments only. Automated payment line 029 20445 900 (7 days a week).
• Cheque/Postal Order Made out to Cardiff Council.
Send to: Parking services, PO Box 47, Cardiff, CF11 1QB.
Post-dated cheques are not accepted. Please note that failure to pay the correct postal charges may result ni the non-delivery of your mail. Alow 2 working days for 1st class and 5 working days for 2nd class.
Yoiunfrormation isprocessed under the Data Protection Act 2018 to fufill Cafdrfi Counsc'i eglal and regulatory tasks as a ocal authority. For further niformaoitn on what personal dat we dhol and how long we keep ti for,please view ruo Privacy Policy: azos Cardill gas uk/ativacynotice Ifyou have concerns about how your dat has been handled, contact the Council's Dat Protection Officer viadataprotection@cardinov.uk. Your information has beon shared htwi PSL in arder ot conatct uoy today, roF further information on how PSL manago personal data, please view Privacy Policy: hipsinsprint.co.uk/privacy-policy/ shush
0000581 NGAGE_277079887 203

The council is showing photos from 2018 approximately we believe, advance warning sign they talk about was not visible on the road, been in a new town absolutely paranoid about bus lanes the driver was trying to take in every sign going and does not remember any sign stating "no left into John Lewis carpark". the reason we think for this is because the sign is amongst  a row of lush and green trees which the trees were remembered for being seen overgrown, as well as buses all in left lane, but no sign. Looking on Street view in August 2024 even you can see the trees have grown over the sign making it unreadable.
The point is the no left hand turn road sign, which is set dead point prior to the road expanding into three lanes and the signs meaning in law  there’s no left turn into that left lane road metres away, because they are road signs at this point. These no left turn road signs need removing, because now it appears the council is saying you can turn left in teh three lane road ,even though the road sign is saying you can’t turn left into that road. The signs need removing and a sign stating no turn into John Lewis carpark needs to be  placed a metre or tow from car park on teh left hand side of road, these no left turn road signs are unlawful to be used for a carpark it appears as Cardiff Council have wrongly used. Ignoring the fact they should not be used for turning into a carpark as I understand it anyway as not car park signs?

Cardiff Council's response that legal deadlines cannot be extended as a reasonable adjustment for a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) appeal appears incorrect.
A council's duties under the Equality Act 2010 can override certain procedural rules, and as I understand the Traffic Penalty Tribunal has the discretion to accept late representations for appeals.  But I’m sure the council has a duty to make reasonable adjustment for disabilities and I think their statement is incorrect in law.

Would be grateful for anyone’s opinion on this, I would be willing to go to tribunal though it will make my chronic disability worse I am willing to  go to tribunal if my case is fact, so to prevent other people having to go through this stress and illness caused, which seems to be a serious issue when thousands of people are being wrongly caught at this spot due to the council wrong signage. 

Grateful for any advice thank you. cant add pictures to attachments or copy and paste pictures unfortunately it wont let me.

They say the signs(where they get plural from, I don't know) in their opinion comply with LATOR.

IMO, the only regulatory sign present does not.