Author Topic: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local buses & cycles only - URGENT  (Read 10465 times)

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You should upload to the appeal as you state to be safe. I am still offering to represent you. I would not pay it.  Up to you. I am not going to engage in open disagreements on the forum. I'll PM you my phone number if you wish to do so mano a mano. FGS!

I suggest we all go to bed.  ;) I have another 10 appeals to write tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2025, 10:49:59 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

In all probability your appeal will be registered - the tribunal factor in postal delays and other matters and normally apply a limit of 30 days or more as they are permitted to do. I wouldn't fret. The important thing is that you submitted it.

Currently they're scheduling for October, so we've plenty of time once it's been registered.

You should upload to the appeal as you state to be safe. I am still offering to represent you. I would not pay it.  Up to you. I am not going to engage in open disagreements on the forum. I'll PM you my phone number if you wish to do so mano a mano. FGS!

I suggest we all go to bed.  ;) I have another 10 appeals to write tomorrow.
@Hippocrates, hope your appeals went well. I also don't want to pay anything as I haven't done anything wrong.
Your offer is gratefully accepted and when you have time, can we can discuss further here or by PM/email...


In all probability your appeal will be registered - the tribunal factor in postal delays and other matters and normally apply a limit of 30 days or more as they are permitted to do. I wouldn't fret. The important thing is that you submitted it.

Currently they're scheduling for October, so we've plenty of time once it's been registered.
The appeal has been accepted/registered for a date in November as you indicated - we have plenty of time...

Just over a month to go to the adjudicator appeal; when should I expect the Council's 'evidence pack'?

Just over a month to go to the adjudicator appeal; when should I expect the Council's 'evidence pack'?

Should be with you by a week before the hearing.


Paras. 11 and 12 apply in your case:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Practice%20Direction%2002-2025%20on%20behalf%20of%20ETA%2019%20August%202025%20-%20Service%20of%20evidence%20by%20Enforcement%20Authorities.pdf
@Hippocrates - I've received the 'evidence pack' by email today which consists of;
1. Video.
2. PDF of various docs inc; appeal confirmation, TMO, Challenge, letters, stills, site pictures (some old ones highlighting the turn left blue arrow?), picture showing the turn left arrow (except buses & cycles) with the timed restriction sign in the background past the road junction.

What should I do with it?

Appeal date: Tuesday 11th Nov 2025 Time: 10:00 Type: Personal - video

Thank you.

To add my six penneth, can I suggest you start with a simple and clear description of the signage. Not what you were doing or other vehicles or whatever but simple scene setting.

The location is situated in Tottenham Court Road approx. ** metres to the north/south/east/west (whichever) of the junction of Tottenham Court Road with ****.

The sign changes the prevailing situation on TCR, namely **-way traffic without moving traffic restrictions into a bus and **-only carriageway.

This is effected on the ground by a single traffic sign situated behind and clustered among other traffic signs and infrastructure.

There are no advance warning signs or any other indication of this dramatic change. Put simply, if a motorist could see the sign from a reasonable enough distance away, then there's a chance that they could discern its meaning and act accordingly. But when there is poor intervisibility such as travelling behind a high-sided vehicle on TCR or when they turn left then a motorist's view is diminished or even non-existent until they are virtually at the sign.

In my case............

By the way, what's the speed limit in that section of TCR?

Appeal lost.

OP did not appear but the authority were represented.

The adjudicator's findings were that one sign is the regulatory requirement(where this bold statement comes from I've no idea, as we know the minimum legal test is 'adequacy') and that 'Signage was I found, on the council's cctv footage of the incident, which I viewed, visible, and, I inferred, fully within the appellant's line of vision

(my emphasis).

Whether there's a case for review on the grounds that the adjudicator took into account something which they should not, perhaps we can discuss. I refer to this in the decision: 'I noted that prior to meeting the restriction, the appellant also failed to comply with a mandatory direction to turn left at the preceding junction.'

Also, OP what were the circumstances surrounding you not appearing?

It was vital to attend this. My only personal hearing was with the same adjudicator and he was dismissive of unsighted signage in a case where my wife was driving and we failed to convince him despite good evidence.

This one backed up by the case I cited should have been won but I doubt it can be reviewed.

The critical factor of where the CCTV is seems to lost on Mr Harman.

The attendance by Camden is noteworthy.

------------


Case reference   2250362354
Appellant   xxxxxx
Authority   London Borough of Camden
VRM   FV23JVH
PCN Details
PCN   CU70251787
Contravention date   12 Mar 2025
Contravention time   18:11:00
Contravention location   Tottenham Court Road by J/W Howland Street
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Using a route restricted to certain vehicles
Referral date   -
Decision Date   31 Oct 2025
Adjudicator   Andrew Harman
Appeal decision   Appeal refused
Direction   Full penalty charge notice amount stated to be paid within 28 days.
Reasons   
Mrs Cummins, for the council, attended the hearing of this appeal today on the Microsoft Teams video conferencing platform.

The appellant did not attend the hearing.

I decided the appeal in his absence.

The contravention alleged in these proceedings was that this vehicle, at Tottenham Court Road, used a route restricted to certain vehicles.

I acknowledged the submissions made by the appellant around the issue of signage.

The council is required to sign this restriction with one regulatory sign only.

Signage was I found, on the council's cctv footage of the incident, which I viewed, visible, and, I inferred, fully within the appellant's line of vision. I was satisfied that it was clear and correct. I noted that prior to meeting the restriction, the appellant also failed to comply with a mandatory direction to turn left at the preceding junction.

I was satisfied against this background that this contravention had occurred.

The appeal was refused.

Appeal lost.

OP did not appear but the authority were represented.

The adjudicator's findings were that one sign is the regulatory requirement(where this bold statement comes from I've no idea, as we know the minimum legal test is 'adequacy') and that 'Signage was I found, on the council's cctv footage of the incident, which I viewed, visible, and, I inferred, fully within the appellant's line of vision

(my emphasis).

Whether there's a case for review on the grounds that the adjudicator took into account something which they should not, perhaps we can discuss. I refer to this in the decision: 'I noted that prior to meeting the restriction, the appellant also failed to comply with a mandatory direction to turn left at the preceding junction.'

Also, OP what were the circumstances surrounding you not appearing?
I think you have posted on the incorrect thread..?

Thanks, you're right.

Can't delete at present.

OK so wrong case but for reference here is the video and we know Camden is taking an interest as authorities don't attend many adjudications.


I don't do Tuesdays. So, this will have to be adjourned to a Wednesday, Friday or Saturday. PM received. We had better communicate by phone to sort out a date, which will most probably be March now. PM sent.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2025, 11:25:49 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hello all,

I received a PCN for the exact same thing. That sign is ridicolously small and should be 3 times bigger imo.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/camden-borough-bus-lane-as-whole-road/