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Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham

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Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
on:
#1
Hi All,

I've received a ticket today with the letter dated 08/09/2023 for the contravention 34J BEING IN A BUS LANE which occurred on the 28/08/2023

I remember this clearly where as I was driving down Ripple Road (Barking), a car had pulled out from the petrol station hence I used the bus lane oppose to carrying out an emergency brake.

There was little space for me to move back into however the bus lane came to an end just in front of the final car. You can even see the arrows to use both lanes in the pictures taken and it shows me driving outside the bus lane till this car pulled out.

Is this worth appealing?

https://ibb.co/wwGqcQy
https://ibb.co/yhfNQmx

I've taken these coordinates of Google Maps: 51.533186, 0.107451 for exact point of detection.
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #1 on:
#2
As per the other advice.
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@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #2 on:
#3
Quote from: Aiden on September 12, 2023, 01:19:12 pm
I remember this clearly where as I was driving down Ripple Road (Barking), a car had pulled out from the petrol station hence I used the bus lane oppose to carrying out an emergency brake.
It doesn't really come across like that in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4Sv0O7cSs

As Hippocrates has identified, vague locus is a good starting point, so I suggest you draft a challenge based on that and put it on here for review. As far as I can see there are at least 11 bus stops on Ripple Road but it's worth double-checking.

In the meantime I'll find out the make and model of the camera, they might not have a valid certificate for it.

It's worth adding that officers from this authority are unlikely in the extreme to turn up to a contested hearing, and if you require them to attend and they don't you win by default, so it's probably worth taking this all the way.
Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 12:49:11 am by cp8759
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #3 on:
#4
Absolutely.  Having watched the video, I would also throw in there is no evidence of signage passed.
Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 08:40:57 am by Hippocrates
Logged
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #4 on:
#5
It seems to me the video shows the OP's car passing round the vehicle exiting the garage, going into the bus lane, then carrying on in it quite fast, undertaking cars as well.  There is no attempt to exit the bus lane after avoiding the other car. On the video, the contravention is made out very clearly.
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #5 on:
#6
My view is that the only hope is the vague locus. And their historic form of forcing appellants to the Tribunal only not to adduce any evidence as cp says etc.
Logged
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #6 on:
#7
Absent a technical argument which there nay well be. Pay the discount i cannot see any adjudicator accepting your version of events
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #7 on:
#8
The OP's version of events is far too candid.  Just put in the vague locus as an initial challenge and lack of signage and see what happens.  Camera arguments can come later.
Logged
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #8 on:
#9
Draft:

Dear Sirs

Ref:  PCN.......................VRM....................

I make this initial submission against the PCN as follows:

1.  The PCN does not state the exact locus of the alleged contravention. 

2.  The video evidence shows no relevant warning signage allegedly passed by the vehicle concerned.

Therefore, in view of the above, please cancel the PCN as you have not proved the alleged contravention.

Yours faithfully

Name

Address
Logged
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #9 on:
#10
@Aiden are you still with us?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #10 on:
#11
Hi,

Yes, sorry still here.

I've lodged an appeal over the weekend and will let this forum know how the outcome goes.

It's unfortunate that it looks as if I was driving too fast and remained in the bust lane but in the time I had to react I felt it safer to stay in the bus lane oppose to swerving back into the lane. The bus lane literally finishes just out of shot and I had to enter that lane too.
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #11 on:
#12
Quote from: Aiden on September 18, 2023, 09:08:35 am
Hi,

Yes, sorry still here.

I've lodged an appeal over the weekend and will let this forum know how the outcome goes.

It's unfortunate that it looks as if I was driving too fast and remained in the bust lane but in the time I had to react I felt it safer to stay in the bus lane oppose to swerving back into the lane. The bus lane literally finishes just out of shot and I had to enter that lane too.
Papers-based, or telephone hearing ?
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #12 on:
#13
Quote from: Incandescent on September 18, 2023, 10:25:36 am
Quote from: Aiden on September 18, 2023, 09:08:35 am
Hi,

Yes, sorry still here.

I've lodged an appeal over the weekend and will let this forum know how the outcome goes.

It's unfortunate that it looks as if I was driving too fast and remained in the bust lane but in the time I had to react I felt it safer to stay in the bus lane oppose to swerving back into the lane. The bus lane literally finishes just out of shot and I had to enter that lane too.
Papers-based, or telephone hearing ?

On the council's website. Should hear within the next 10 days
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Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #13 on:
#14
Quote from: Aiden on September 18, 2023, 05:23:02 pm
On the council's website. Should hear within the next 10 days
So not an appeal, a representation. Did you use the draft posted above?

If not, please show us exactly what you sent.

It will take the council a lot longer than 10 days to respond, 1 to 2 months is a more realistic timeframe.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Bus lane ticket Barking and Dagenham
Reply #14 on:
#15
FOI response:



The EA's current (and only) certificate for bus lane enforcement:



Looks like an easy win on appeal to the tribunal. Will likely be made even easier by the fact that the council probably won't bother to turn up.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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