3. Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
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Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
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Merrily driving along Watford Road and had the misfortune of entering a zone that is restricted at particular times. I went back and was disappointed that the signage is facing you as you turn in (giving you very little notice of changing course).
I am attaching pictures and hope there is recourse here. Please help.

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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #1 on: »
GSV no good here, as it's out-of-date, (Oct 2022). Di you turn left or right into Perrin Road. Are there any advance signs ? If not you might have an appeal argument. However, your photo shows three signs, one positioned for drivers turning left into the road. If you turned right, the signs would be clearly visible to you.

Anyway, post up the video.  Did you just carry on up Perrin Road or turn round ?
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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #2 on: »
Issue with sate of service in parenthesis. The rest of the PCN please.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #3 on: »
@Incandescent - Thanks for your reply. Does GSV stand for Google Street View? I turned right into Perrin Road. There weren't any advanced signs. If you turn right with no oncoming traffic, there is nowhere near enough time to take in all the signage. Given, you might also be conscious of emergent oncoming traffic.

Here's a link to images and video: https://viewmypcn.co.uk/default.aspx?r=4aedda1e50f24baa0adea1a29f662bcf225baec5

I carried on up Perrin Road.
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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #4 on: »
@Hippocrates - Sorry I'm not aware ofthe lexicon here. What do you mean by 'sate of service'? Here's the rest of the PCN.

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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #5 on: »
My typo: date of service.

Draft:

The PCN is unenforceable because:

1. The statement in  parenthesis concerning the date of service  causes confusion and ambiguity in terms of my understanding of the statement immediately preceding it.

2. The taken without consent  ground clearly limits to theft and therefore does not correctly express the statutory ground because a relative or friend may have taken the vehicle without consent, which does not necessitate an obligation to report such circumstance to the Police or, indeed, make an insurance claim.

3. The signage is most confusing by its plurality and there was no sufficient advanced signage of the restriction.

In view of the above, please cancel the PCN

Name (registered keeper)

Address
« Last Edit: February 10, 2024, 03:07:22 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #6 on: »
@Hippocrates - Many thanks for drafting this response. I have written to LB Brent and will update here with their reply.
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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #7 on: »
@Hippocrates - I have had a rejection to my appeal and have been invited to either pay up or appeal. I am enclosing here images of their response.



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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #8 on: »
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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #9 on: »
Failure to consider; but, the adjudicator may not agree with the technical  issues raised. I will have a think over the weekend.
Sorry, but press stories will not help. Signage may well be the issue here.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 10:39:15 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #10 on: »
Video:



@mrd would you be able to go back and check if this sign is still in place?



We don't want a close-up, but rather a wide-angle photo showing the view on approach to the sign.

The traffic orders are The Brent (Prescribed Routes) (Pedestrian & Cycle Zone) (No. 23) Traffic Order 2022 and The Brent (Prescribed Routes) (Pedestrian & Cycle Zone) (No. 23, 2022) (Amendment No. 1) Order 2023

I've won a previous case at this location, see Kingsuk Biswas v London Borough of Brent (2230438180, 11 November 2023), the original thread is here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/brent-council-failing-to-comply-with-a-restriction-on-vehicles-entering-a-pedest/

I agree with Hippocrates, signage is the most obvious aspect to investigate.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 12:28:32 am by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi! I'll send wide angle signage and view over the weekend.
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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #12 on: »
@mrd any updates?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #13 on: »
Thanks for following up. Here's a Wetransfer link of two videos I shot showing my approach to Perrin Road: https://we.tl/t-VLKiS38IQB.

I am also including a wide angle photograph here.



 

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Re: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd
« Reply #14 on: »
Having now seen the videos, I don't think inadequacy of signage is a runner, so you'd have to go on the technical points. The large advance sign is pretty prominent; what more could they do ?  This doesn't mean there is no credible appeal argument, but inadequate signage doesn't seem to me to be part of it.
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  3. Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd