Author Topic: Brent/Code 53 (Failure to Comply with a restriction for pedestrian zone )/Perrin Rd  (Read 596 times)

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mrd

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Merrily driving along Watford Road and had the misfortune of entering a zone that is restricted at particular times. I went back and was disappointed that the signage is facing you as you turn in (giving you very little notice of changing course).
I am attaching pictures and hope there is recourse here. Please help.

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Incandescent

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GSV no good here, as it's out-of-date, (Oct 2022). Di you turn left or right into Perrin Road. Are there any advance signs ? If not you might have an appeal argument. However, your photo shows three signs, one positioned for drivers turning left into the road. If you turned right, the signs would be clearly visible to you.

Anyway, post up the video.  Did you just carry on up Perrin Road or turn round ?

Hippocrates

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Issue with sate of service in parenthesis. The rest of the PCN please.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

mrd

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@Incandescent - Thanks for your reply. Does GSV stand for Google Street View? I turned right into Perrin Road. There weren't any advanced signs. If you turn right with no oncoming traffic, there is nowhere near enough time to take in all the signage. Given, you might also be conscious of emergent oncoming traffic.

Here's a link to images and video: https://viewmypcn.co.uk/default.aspx?r=4aedda1e50f24baa0adea1a29f662bcf225baec5

I carried on up Perrin Road.

mrd

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@Hippocrates - Sorry I'm not aware ofthe lexicon here. What do you mean by 'sate of service'? Here's the rest of the PCN.

Hippocrates

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My typo: date of service.

Draft:

The PCN is unenforceable because:

1. The statement in  parenthesis concerning the date of service  causes confusion and ambiguity in terms of my understanding of the statement immediately preceding it.

2. The taken without consent  ground clearly limits to theft and therefore does not correctly express the statutory ground because a relative or friend may have taken the vehicle without consent, which does not necessitate an obligation to report such circumstance to the Police or, indeed, make an insurance claim.

3. The signage is most confusing by its plurality and there was no sufficient advanced signage of the restriction.

In view of the above, please cancel the PCN

Name (registered keeper)

Address
« Last Edit: February 10, 2024, 03:07:22 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

mrd

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@Hippocrates - Many thanks for drafting this response. I have written to LB Brent and will update here with their reply.

mrd

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@Hippocrates - I have had a rejection to my appeal and have been invited to either pay up or appeal. I am enclosing here images of their response.



Hippocrates

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Failure to consider; but, the adjudicator may not agree with the technical  issues raised. I will have a think over the weekend.
Sorry, but press stories will not help. Signage may well be the issue here.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 10:39:15 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

cp8759

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Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gwRsbMmEk8

@mrd would you be able to go back and check if this sign is still in place?



We don't want a close-up, but rather a wide-angle photo showing the view on approach to the sign.

The traffic orders are The Brent (Prescribed Routes) (Pedestrian & Cycle Zone) (No. 23) Traffic Order 2022 and The Brent (Prescribed Routes) (Pedestrian & Cycle Zone) (No. 23, 2022) (Amendment No. 1) Order 2023

I've won a previous case at this location, see Kingsuk Biswas v London Borough of Brent (2230438180, 11 November 2023), the original thread is here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/brent-council-failing-to-comply-with-a-restriction-on-vehicles-entering-a-pedest/

I agree with Hippocrates, signage is the most obvious aspect to investigate.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 12:28:32 am by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

mrd

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Hi! I'll send wide angle signage and view over the weekend.

cp8759

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@mrd any updates?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

mrd

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Thanks for following up. Here's a Wetransfer link of two videos I shot showing my approach to Perrin Road: https://we.tl/t-VLKiS38IQB.

I am also including a wide angle photograph here.



 

Incandescent

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Having now seen the videos, I don't think inadequacy of signage is a runner, so you'd have to go on the technical points. The large advance sign is pretty prominent; what more could they do ?  This doesn't mean there is no credible appeal argument, but inadequate signage doesn't seem to me to be part of it.