Author Topic: Apologies. Problem posting Barnet. Pavement parking. Code 62. Old Rectory Gardens  (Read 1454 times)

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My user name refers to Hans Christian Andersen author of, among other stories, 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. I adopt the stance of the young child who, when seeing the emperor naked, is not afraid to step out of line with the received wisdom and says what they see.

Same here. Sometimes I'm correct, but it gets me into hot water none the less, and sometimes I'm wrong.

Thankfully the forum isn't just one person's view.   
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You and your colleagues provide a valuable service for free. You have obviously all studied parking laws to a greater extent than most people.   It is up to users to decide whether to use the advice or not.   If you were charging then we would demand a refund if you were ever wrong!

THe regulars on here are far more informed on the legislation than the council staff enforcing it !

Thank you CP8759 for asking me to photograph the other side of the sign.  It shows what was missing from the front (the way I was facing).

As you can see it says 'park in marked bays only'.  Of course this was not visible as I parked.  I therefore thought it would be okay as I was out of the times for the parking restriction.  Is that sufficient for my challenge to Barnet (am I expected to look back at the sign after parking?).

Incidentally on other parts of the road the sign which says 'residents permits only' says 'park in marked bays only', but that is not on or near my bay!

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« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 01:11:48 pm by I-LOV-MONEY »

That's not how footway parking works. It is banned everywhere except where signs say otherwise. This is a cul-de-sac, so you have to drive past that sign on the way into the road. Once you're in an exempt area, there is no requirement to have a sign for each bay, as the footway parking exemption (with any qualification such as "in marked bays") applies to the whole street.

This is the best I can come up with in the circumstances:

Dear London Borough of Barnet,

In the first instance I would invite you to cancel the penalty charge on a discretionary basis, given that I parked at night and the contravention appears to be minimal if not de-minimis.

If you are not minded to do so, I would ask that you please provide a copy of the footway parking resolution duly made under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974, so that I may verify whether the council has discharged its duties under section 15(5).

Yours faithfully,
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I had another look again this afternoon.  The sign that I was facing has a car parked partly on the pavement with a red line through it.  Presuming this means 'no parking on the pavement'; that is what I was doing.

If, as you say there is no requirement to have the sign for each bay - the fact that there is the sign, does it not just reinforce the rule?   Somewhere there must be a sign saying you can park within the markings on the pavement, but as I said I was partially outside the marked area.

Do you really think Barnet would cancel the charge if it was discretionary on their powers?   They would want to get as much money in as they can!   Do you believe that the fact that I ask them to turn up the relevant statutes, mean they will think they can't be bothered, ie too much hassle?

If, as you say there is no requirement to have the sign for each bay - the fact that there is the sign, does it not just reinforce the rule?  Somewhere there must be a sign saying you can park within the markings on the pavement, but as I said I was partially outside the marked area.
Yes, it's the sign you photographed which you attached to post 18 above.

Do you really think Barnet would cancel the charge if it was discretionary on their powers?  They would want to get as much money in as they can!  Do you believe that the fact that I ask them to turn up the relevant statutes, mean they will think they can't be bothered, ie too much hassle?
No, I think it's far more likely that Barnet will fail to consider or deal with your representations properly, and you might win a tribunal appeal due to a lack of evidence from the council and/or a procedural impropriety in failing to consider your representations.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I have appealed to Barnet using part of  cp8759 and Mr Mustard’s posts (thanks both).   I shan’t hold my breath while waiting for their acceptance of my challenge!!

Just to say I received my (surprise!) letter of rejection from Barnet today.   The offence was 3 November and they received my appeal on 16 November.  They are hardly rushing it through.

They say that my wheel(s) was partly on the pavement which can force pedestrians to walk on the carriageway which could cause an accident particularly to wheelchair or pushchair users, the very young or elderly, or partially sighted people who maybe forced off the pavement.

The fact that they tell you to partially park on the pavement, inches away from where I parked, seems irrelevant!   I will check tomorrow to make sure that the paving isn't significantly  narrower at the point where I parked.   If there is no appreicable difference I think I will challenge it again when I receive the NtO.

What do you all think, have I got a case worthy of challenge?

Please post a copy of what you wrote and of their rejection.

Would somebody please remind me who to shrink documents to fit on the forum.

Would somebody please remind me who to shrink documents to fit on the forum.

See
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

I find https://imgbb.com/ works well, uploading each image separately, then scrolling down for each image to the BBCode enables you to copy & paste the BBCode for each image into your post.



This is what I wrote to Barnet.

I would invite you to cancel the penalty charge on a discretionary basis, given that I parked at night and the contravention appears to be minimal if not de minimis. The vehicle was slightly outside the bay and only on the kerbstone with one wheel.

I went to post the reply from Barnet, but unfortunately when I tried earlier this evening the server at imgb.com is down and it still is. Hopefully tomorrow they will have rectified the fault. 

Apologies for the delay in uploading Barnet's response.  I was out all this morning and part afternoon.






Is this worth pursuing?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 04:33:28 pm by I-LOV-MONEY »


Discretion?

There are NO marked bays despite their signs because a parking place is not a 'marked bay' for the purposes of footway parking. I cannot express this any clearer. And in addition the parking place markings are incorrect.

So, the signs are incorrect and therefore misleading.