Author Topic: Ealing Council 53J failing to comply with vehicle entering a pedestrian zone Oldfield lane south Greenford (1) (U)  (Read 602 times)

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Ealing Council 53J failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian Oldfield lane south Greenford (1) (U)

Any advice on if and how to appeal this would be appreciated.

Received a fine for 53J failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone in Oldfield lane south in Greenford, London the description of where this happened is very vague and does not state the exact location on the Oldfield lane south of where this happened the images and videos are also no help to see exactly where on the road this happened. On the image and video the sign appears to be way above eye level for a driver in a vehicle and far from the road so I was not able to see it, it was placed as the zone started and had it been spotted wouldn't have allowed enough time to read the sign and timings and stop to turn around prior to entering.

I live 100 miles away in Birmingham which they are aware of as they have sent this to my address and I am not familiar with these roads nor was I aware that there were such restrictions with regards to driving through school zones at certain times as where I am from we have very few pedestrian only zones but the ones we do have are clearly labeled at eye level and are not big enough for cars to drive through.

There also don't seem to be any signs prior to the zone beginning to give you prior warning that up ahead there is a pedestrian only zone that you are not allowed to drive through during certain times.

The sign in the attached image and videos is not clear so the days and timings the restrictions apply to are not visible neither on the PCN does it mention the days and timings of the restrictions. So there is no way of me knowing other than Google (and maybe the Council website which I have not checked) as to when the restrictions apply. Street view does not show an image of the sign perhaps street view has not updated since the sign went up?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iDccG36suPW6zRLD7

Is there a chance I can appeal this and likely win?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p4N1mnG_ZifG059Pu-7lCuwoDFRhCDN_/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zsStG1-n9NL9I_1WhtLLHv1lUOZBbUDV/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13XgbiG3g2XdtlaJ1W3jzeP1T29P9hqnY/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vg4nkTimTG0j3YBQQJ5o-pbDdKXX_B1S/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gA_RAnuA4dMPbbbri7PuhTVVa0eU7jLx/view?usp=drivesdk
« Last Edit: February 04, 2026, 12:00:19 pm by Homer »

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OK.
GSV is not up-to-date, last view is July 2024. Video shows you driving past the signs with no hesitation at all indicating you either didn't see them or didn't realise what the signs meant.

The signs are absurdly high, but this is due to the amount of information on them, thus making the actual restriction sign, (the Flying Motorbike sign) very high up. Any possibility you could get us a photo showing driver view of the approach ?

Thank you so much for your response.

I will try to travel down in the next few days or ask someone I know in that part of London to take photos of drivers view as thw 14 days will be up on Wednesday. From what I can see now it does seem very high up and unless I was in a van or SUV I may not be able to see it from my drivers seat.

Hi I have managed to drive down to London today and recorded from the drivers view and also from a pedestrians view as the signs may not be that clear on the recording from the car, I have also taken photos of the signs.

I have recorded from the top of oldfield lane turning right from The Broadway Greenford and also from the A40 side to show there appeared to be more signage from the A40 side.

The sign on the recording the council sent appears to be quite high up but somewhat lower on the attached images, (not sure if the signs could have been adjusted to a lower height since I first posted?)

Also I noticed a blue sign before the main sign, surely drivers shouldn't need to look that far away from the road to read what it says especiallyif it is a warning?

Other than the blue sign there are no other signs to warn you there is a pedestrian zone ahead. The sign is only when you have entered the zone and then there is no option to turn left or back around to avoid entering the zone. I also noticed after the blue sign there is a tree which obstructs the main warning sign.

Any guidance on whether I have grounds to successfully appeal this would be appreciated or should I just pay this?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gRw2RgPvgVYIWSc0P9snn-DKyzMlblis/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O05xfz09bW8IKAmReLEOO_uXnlj8QFm5/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IyTZIkOVnoCW0d1HCmytuv02qYnLthLE/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FtxIW7f_93PrWOluucf-3Bx2nQrU5yiS/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u7WE3MjCb0G_FbODhul1tLarhPA2aoNu/view?usp=drivesdk
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:12:20 pm by Homer »

Well, basically, it is not a slam-dunk win, I'm afraid, reason being you approached the restriction signs head-on, rather than from a left or right turn. In addition, there is an advance sign. The only thing is the amount of information on the advance sign and also on the actual restriction signs. Too much to read and digest whilst driving a car, but you have to convince an adjudicator of this, and he'll probably think,  if it's 20 mph, one has time to read the Times newspaper !

Well, basically, it is not a slam-dunk win, I'm afraid, reason being you approached the restriction signs head-on, rather than from a left or right turn. In addition, there is an advance sign. The only thing is the amount of information on the advance sign and also on the actual restriction signs. Too much to read and digest whilst driving a car, but you have to convince an adjudicator of this, and he'll probably think,  if it's 20 mph, one has time to read the Times newspaper !

Thank you for your response. I have come across a thread by Bustagate regarding the blue signs being void, Hammersmith and Fulham Council admitting these are not correct could I also cite this as a reason in my appeal?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/south-fulham-s-flying-motorcycle-advance-warning-signs-with-blue-backgrounds/

"Without special authorisation from DfT, local authorities' powers therefore extend only to placing on public highways signs prescribed by TSRGD 2016. Anything else lies outside the powers granted by s.65 RTRA 1984. Signs such as the "flying motorcycle" roundel on a blue background have therefore been placed outside the Council's powers. The legal term for this is "ultra vires" and the consequence is that, for legal purposes, the signs are void. The signs shouldn't be there and the Council cannot use them in support of its legal pleadings, in particular in asserting that there is "adequate signage" of a restriction imposed by a TMO for which a "flying motorcycle" roundel to diagram 619 has lawfully been placed."

"For safety reasons, drivers should not need to divert their eyes more than ten degrees away from the road ahead, meaning that the message on a sign must be fully absorbed before a driver reaches that position..."

Yes, a  very good point about the blue sign not being a traffic sign, because I have just had a quick look at Regulation 18, of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 and in clause 18 the requirement of for the placement of traffic signs to announce the traffic order restrictions.

Quote
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and

(c)in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

So then the question becomes - are the two restriction signs alone, sufficient to announce the restriction ? Well, they may be because they are seen on a straight ahead basis, so the same a traffic lights or a traditional No Entry sign.  Sorry for this, but I'm trying to be Devil's Advocate here, to guess what an adjudicator might think.


No need to apologise @incandesent, I appreciate your input, sorry for being dumb but in layman's terms what you have quoted above what does it mean? Thanks

No need to apologise @incandesent, I appreciate your input, sorry for being dumb but in layman's terms what you have quoted above what does it mean? Thanks
The regulations I have quoted are councils and also Transport for London's bible for establishing then implementing a Traffic Order that places a restriction on a street or road. Key to fighting PCNs where the signage is unclear or inadequate is Regulation 18. Anyway, have a read here :-

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents

Main problem is demonstrating "adequacy", because this is subjective, your 'inadequate' is the council's 'adequate'. This means the only place where a decision is made either way is at the adjudicators, who will look at the arguments posited by both sides and come do a decision for one side or the other. 
And, of course, this means in order to get a decision, one has to take the council to adjudication and risk the full PCN penalty. Hence most PCNs are paid after rejection by the councils, like >95% of them. A nice little earner for London councils especially. PCN revenues in London are well over £700 million a year.