3. Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
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Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
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Hi,


I received a PCN for exactly the same contravention as

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/brent-pcn-contravention-code-38l-wembley-high-road-failing-to-comply-with-a-sign/msg2097/#msg2097

The same question please is there any hope in appealing this PCN. The outcome of the above was not posted and I was somewhat cofnused.

"The statement re date of service after the statement re paying is confusing.  Cp:  you have posted salient draft representations on this very issue on the other forum and one other member has a similarly worded PCN."

Not sure if you can help @cp8759

Many thanks for your help
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 02:55:48 pm by mashhd »
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #1 on: »
Post the PCN hiding only name and address.
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi,

I Keep getting this message evwen when i select the lowest picture quality 138kb

An Error Has Occurred!
The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.

Please can you assist.

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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #3 on: »
This forum does not do attachments.

For meaningful advice please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up copies of all sides of the PCN (redact only yr name & address - leave everything else in) .
any Council photos,
and a GSV link to the alleged location.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 01:57:06 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #4 on: »
thanks John very useful i will follow
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 01:56:13 pm by mashhd »
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks for the advice John - I have tried to follow the guidelines as best as possible if something is missing please do let me know. Thank you.




Brent Council:
Contravention Code 38L

Turning right and failing to go around the sign.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kFiQPCYWCs1ZFTxNjilCVmumFP2foSUp/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mb3LxmB5scxI3AIpaoqaGTfUO4r99v_H/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EDl8EsxZ1LGYkOMkv5M9337I00fgJ-RY/view?usp=sharing


Google street view image:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/KRJwt1arybx6cLzb6

Only council photos they have showbn are the two on the PCNC

@cp8759 copying as suggested for further advice
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 02:54:22 pm by mashhd »
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #6 on: »
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #7 on: »
@mashhd well there's bad news and some good news.

The bad news is that you're banged-to-rights on the contravention:



If this had been caught on dashcam and reported to the police by a member of the public, you could have ended up with three points on your licence for driving without due care and attention.

The goods news is that the council website does not provide the statutory grounds of appeal:






This has been upheld as a ground of appeal by almost every adjudicator in the tribunal, the most recent Brent cases is Muhammadmaisam Datoo v London Borough of Brent (2240196951, 29 July 2024) but if you look here, there's a whole raft of cases all won on the same point in rows 644 to 647 (I won another one against Islington this morning that I'll add to the spreadsheet tomorrow).

The council will never accept anything you say, so you'll have to make a representation as follows:

Dear London Borough of Brent,

I challenge liability on the ground that the penalty charge exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

Yours faithfully


The council will issue a notice of rejection, but you have overwhelmingly good odds of winning the subsequent appeal to the tribunal. Make the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 03:47:52 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #8 on: »
@cp8759 thank you so much for your help and advice.

Please correct me if i misunderstood anything

So Step 1 - i will challenge the PCN on the grounds you mention

Step 2 - the council will reject the appeal

Step 3 - i will take the matter to the tribunal

Step 4: What evidence or what do i say to the tribunal  is there any set text I can use for the representation, as I'm a little confused on what to say? When I take it to the tribunal. I would be very grateful for your help. Thank you once again

I have read the evidence and Mr Murray-Smith's written submissions, and
I find that the argument advanced in relation to the lack of consistency
between the grounds of appeal on the Authority's PCN and those on the
website, is well founded.

Is there anyway to know or see what the written submissions were/are that Mr Murray-Smith made?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2024, 03:22:34 pm by mashhd »
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Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #9 on: »
@mashhd I can represent you at the tribunal if you'd like.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #10 on: »
@mashhd do not send the representation yet and please respond to my PM asap.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #11 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic
« Reply #12 on: »
Interesting.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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  3. Contravention Code 38L - Wembley High Road, Failing to comply with a sign indicating vehicular traffic