3. 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
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52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
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Hello everyone. I was in Romford and receive this PCN through the post. I don’t believe I passed a No Entry. I am a disabled blue badge user. I was travelling in my motability vehicle. The sign stated “no entry (access only)”. So I went in as I needed closer access. After I followed the road, it split into two, one with no entry and the other that allowed entry with no restrictions. So I’m confused as to why I received this PCN. The video shows no actual violation also.

Do I have a case?

https://share.icloud.com/photos/04d_VmQnXVZsJBmKIrWxra3BQ
« Last Edit: May 08, 2025, 06:19:56 pm by Sherin »
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
For meaningful advice please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here all sides of the PCN (only redact name & address - leave all else in),
the video and any Council photos,
and a GSV link to the location.
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
Sorry forgot to add the link for images. Please see OP now
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
Could anyone provide some advice please?
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
Here is the location on GSV, but GSV latest is April 2021, so clearly the restriction wasn't there then. A look at their video shows no signs passed at all. I suggest this is a major failure of evidence, and the OP should submit reps on that basis.
Even better would be photos taken of the site locally, since GSV is too out-of-date.
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Choose the last ground re traffic order (which belongs to an entirely different legislation) and let's see what they say to that! I am serious. Their website is even worse still.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
@cp8759 How fast can we obtain the TMO for this? Strategic question.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
@Sherin I hope you haven't submitted anything yet!

I've asked for the traffic order but it might not come back until 11 June, however I don't think it matters too much. See these cases:

Roger Marlow v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2170021610, 23 February 2017)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Brent (223050929A, 13 January 2024)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Havering (223050945A, 13 January 2024)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v Royal Borough of Greenwich (2240260573, 15 July 2024)

Those decisions explain that the allegation of "Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types vehicle" is inadequate because it doesn't tell you what type of vehicle is prohibited, so you don't know what the accusation actually is.

If there are photos of the signs on the PCN that remedies the problem, but in this case there are no photos of any signs on the PCN, so this looks like quite a strong ground to challenge the penalty.

Here's a simple representation:

Dear London Borough of Havering,

I challenge liability because the penalty charge notice does not specify what type of vehicle is prohibited, it therefore does not provide the grounds on which the council believes a penalty is payable. Because the penalty charge notice does not comply with the requirements of section 4(8)(a)(i) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, no penalty may be demanded.

Yours faithfully,

Once submitted, take timed / dated screenshots of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
Thank you all. I have just submitted the challenge using the simple template provided by @cp8759. Thanks
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
UPDATE:

Just received a notice of rejection today dated 27/07/2025. I submitted reps on 11/05/25. This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?

NoJ below:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0da7bvILlwOw4bfH0p9X2REcw
« Last Edit: July 30, 2025, 02:16:24 pm by Sherin »
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote
This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?
Unfortunately no, the legislation under which the PCN was served has no limit, but if it was over 3 months, it could be regarded as unfair at London Tribunals.
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on July 30, 2025, 02:57:54 pm
Quote
This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?
Unfortunately no, the legislation under which the PCN was served has no limit, but if it was over 3 months, it could be regarded as unfair at London Tribunals.

Oh that’s a shame. Anyway, their response was nonsensical and laughable. I guess I’m taking this to LT?
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi everyone. Could I get some advice on the notice of rejection letter please?
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Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Sherin on July 30, 2025, 04:17:10 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on July 30, 2025, 02:57:54 pm
Quote
This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?
Unfortunately no, the legislation under which the PCN was served has no limit, but if it was over 3 months, it could be regarded as unfair at London Tribunals.

Oh that’s a shame. Anyway, their response was nonsensical and laughable. I guess I’m taking this to LT?

Er yes!  Do you want representation? There are loads of decisions re unconscionable delay on cp8759's initial page.

https://bit.ly/2ALghSS

scroll down to adjudications - notable cases. How many days exactly as I have lost count?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 08:13:28 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
As I  understand it, London Tribunals only consider anything over 3 months as unfair, but as you say, the OP hasn't told us the exact number of days.
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