Author Topic: 51J Failing No entry. Phyppe way / whipps cross road e11 Waltham forest council  (Read 500 times)

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Hi.
Sorry having issues with images 😬

Basically I took the wrong exit on a roundabout and ended up on the  a114 Phyppe way driving away from the a104.

I needed to turn round but couldn't as I saw a no right turn sign for a bus lane. So I continued along the road and saw another junction, the road was clear so I turned right as there was no "no right turn" sign on this junction.

As the road was clear I quickly turned right. As I entered the road, noticed it was a bus lane, and I saw a "no entry" sign. Stopped , reversed and pulled out the bus lane without going and further and rejoined phyppe road. I then got a ticket.
I replied stating that there was a no right turn sign for the first turning but no sign for this turning. I also argued that I was unable to see the no entry sign until I turned right as the sign was facing away from me and could not see it until I committed to my manoeuvre. I pointed out that there should be a no right turn on the rear of the no entry sign. And this is the reply. How can I appeal this as it's not fair as I couldn't see the no entry until after I turned right and didn't want to stop in the middle of a main road. And also I didn't continue to travel along the bus lane..

Their reply states that There are clear signs " but they face away from the direction I was heading..

Thanks

"https://imgur.com/a/dFm0c5U"

"https://imgur.com/a/Nqrzl3f"
« Last Edit: February 05, 2025, 03:52:42 pm by Jamesp74 »

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Re: 51J Failing No entry. Phyppe way / whoops cross road e11
« Reply #1 on: »
Is this thread related to one you have already started ? If so, post it in there and ask a moderator to delete this one.

Re: 51J Failing No entry. Phyppe way / whoops cross road e11
« Reply #2 on: »
Is this thread related to one you have already started ? If so, post it in there and ask a moderator to delete this one.

No this is my first post

Quote

Sorry having issues with images 😬

For guidance see
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Please also post a GSV link to the location,
 all sides of the PCN (only react yr name & address)
  and a copy of you reps
     and the rest of the NtO,
        and the video.

There are often mistakes in the 'small print'.
 For convenience I've put some of your images below.















Hi, I've misplaced the original PCN

the video is

"https://youtu.be/SKmhV6KxHhM?si=qr1G1J9AN7vqwO3t"


Hi, I've misplaced the original PCN

the video is

"https://youtu.be/SKmhV6KxHhM?si=qr1G1J9AN7vqwO3t"
This is the road concerned on a normal approach: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Jk5S3U1tuenoLicVA
Look the No Entry sign placement, then the change of tarmac grey shade. The video shows what, to me, is a clear case of de minimis. The driver turns, sees the sign, stops, and is clearly getting ready to reverse when the video stops.

Well, I have to say that whilst turning into that road that is clearly NOT intended for vehicles turning right into it, was for me, a bit foolish, looking at the video, only 50 cms of your car passed the sign, and you backed out.

Not a good manoevre in my book, but the contravention is trivial, and could be classed as de minimis. Trouble with de minimis is there is no definition of it but you know it when you see it. The other trouble with de minimis arguments is that you only really get them looked at, at London Tribunals, and some adjudicators won't even admit it exists, despite it being a well-known legal maxim since Victorian times.

So really it is up to you whether to test the matter at London Tribunals or pay the discount if they have re-offered it. You haven't shown the rest of their letter of rejection so we can't see if they have or not/