3. 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
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31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
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My wife drove car into a box junction on High Road, Goodmayes. She was stopped in the box for 3.5 to 4 seconds from the time counter on the video. I am trying to see if there will be anyway to make a representation that it was a short space of time and also the box junction road marking is very worn out ?

I have uploaded the video and the PCN for any of you knowledgeable members who can please help me out.





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Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #1 on: »
PCN number please. I will advise later re their website as there is a problem.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on September 04, 2024, 06:44:12 pm
PCN number please. I will advise later re their website as there is a problem.

Hi Hippocrates, PCN number is AF99049380
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Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #3 on: »
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-redbridge-31j-contravention-(yellow-box)/msg34088/#msg34088

Please go through the screens and screenshot the grounds. This one limits to one ground which contradicts the PCN and law.

I will check some cases re this place.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2024, 06:58:39 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: DolbyAtmos on September 04, 2024, 06:46:29 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on September 04, 2024, 06:44:12 pm
PCN number please. I will advise later re their website as there is a problem.

Hi Hippocrates, PCN number is AF99049380

Sorry I am a twit.  VRM I meant.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on September 04, 2024, 06:54:33 pm
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-redbridge-31j-contravention-(yellow-box)/msg34088/#msg34088

Please go through the screens and screenshot the grounds. This one limits to one ground which contradicts the PCN and law.

I will check some cases re this place.

Please see the screen shots when i go onto the website to challenge the PCN. I think the last screenshot is the important one with the grounds.

Screenshots
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Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #6 on: »
As they reoffer the discount, I would wait a bit.

Draft to follow: de minimis (4 seconds) and website grounds. But probably leave the latter until later.
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #7 on: »
Count 28 days from the 4th September.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #8 on: »
I was just going to PM you to make representations but saw this this morning which is wholly wrong:

The outstanding balance is £130.00
You can view details to pay for your PCN.
The period when you could contest this PCN has expired.

Penalty Charge Notice: AF99049380
Vehicle registration: YT66HJA
Contravention date: Tuesday, 27 Aug 2024 17:40
Contravention: Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
Street: HIGH ROAD; GOODMAYES
Location:
Status: Representation Rejected

The outstanding balance is £130.00

Pay your Penalty Charge Notice now.

I will advise in detail what to write to them and suggest you authorise me now. They did this in Case No. 2240175190 and they are wrong to do it again.

Or send this immediately to: parkingandtrafficenforcement@redbridge.gov.uk

Dear Sirs

Ref: PCN: AF99049380  VRM: YT66HJA

I refer to the said PCN dated 2nd September. Upon attempting to make representations today, I was presented with information that the period in which to contest the PCN has expired and that the status is Representation is Rejected.

This is wholly unacceptable as the date of the PCN is 2nd September. You did exactly the same in Case No 2240175190 (which you lost) and I know this to be true as I am currently being advised by the same representative.  Therefore, as I am well within the 28 days in which to make a representation according to the law, I require you to rescind the current status forthwith and consider the following representations:

1. The contravention did not occur as the box junction is worn and the time stopped was de minimis.
2. Your website challenge page expressly limits to one ground of representation which flies in the face of the information given on the PCN and the law.

Therefore, in light of the  above, please cancel the PCN.

P.S.: Please also register this as a formal complaint since your council is rather prone to making these unlawful demands for money.

****

PM sent.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2024, 10:47:16 am by Hippocrates »
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Like Like x 1 View List
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #9 on: »
@DolbyAtmos I have sent you two PMs.
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #10 on: »
@DolbyAtmos. Please explain what has happened here e.g. if you have made representations, has a Notice of Rejection been received? Also, if you have, please regularly update the thread.
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on September 27, 2024, 08:26:13 pm
@DolbyAtmos. Please explain what has happened here e.g. if you have made representations, has a Notice of Rejection been received? Also, if you have, please regularly update the thread.

Hi Hippocrates,

So i have made the representation online on 24th September 2024 about the De minimis 4 seconds , no Notice of Rejection received as of yet, will check post today if anything comes through.
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Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #12 on: »
Phew. Panic over. I wish you had posted a draft first as I would have advised you to mention the website issue. So now I have to amend my previous post.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on September 27, 2024, 10:06:30 am
I was just going to PM you to make representations but saw this this morning which is wholly wrong:

The outstanding balance is £130.00
You can view details to pay for your PCN.
The period when you could contest this PCN has expired.

Penalty Charge Notice: AF99049380
Vehicle registration: YT66HJA
Contravention date: Tuesday, 27 Aug 2024 17:40
Contravention: Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
Street: HIGH ROAD; GOODMAYES
Location:
Status: Representation Rejected

The outstanding balance is £130.00

Pay your Penalty Charge Notice now.

I will advise in detail what to write to them and suggest you authorise me now. They did this in Case No. 2240175190 and they are wrong to do it again.

Or send this immediately to: parkingandtrafficenforcement@redbridge.gov.uk

Dear Sirs

Ref: PCN: AF99049380  VRM: YT66HJA

I refer to the said PCN dated 2nd September. Upon attempting to make representations today, I was presented with information that the period in which to contest the PCN has expired and that the status is Representation is Rejected.

This is wholly unacceptable as the date of the PCN is 2nd September. You did exactly the same in Case No 2240175190 (which you lost) and I know this to be true as I am currently being advised by the same representative.  Therefore, as I am well within the 28 days in which to make a representation according to the law, I require you to rescind the current status forthwith and consider the following representations:

1. The contravention did not occur as the box junction is worn and the time stopped was de minimis.
2. Your website challenge page expressly limits to one ground of representation which flies in the face of the information given on the PCN and the law.

Therefore, in light of the  above, please cancel the PCN.

P.S.: Please also register this as a formal complaint since your council is rather prone to making these unlawful demands for money.

****

PM sent.


Now struck out. While I am prepared to help with this case, I cannot possibly accept being embarrassed in this way. OPs MUST update details/actions as appropriate.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2024, 09:30:03 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction High Road, Goodmayes
« Reply #14 on: »
Hello, Sorry i think we may have got our wires crossed, so apologies if my previous information was confusing.
I received the official Notice of Rejection of representation letter a couple of days ago. I would be grateful if you can provide any advice on what further action i need to take.



Notice of Rejection of representaion pg2 - pg6
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