TFL(YBJ) - CODE 31, Wandsworth Rd/Bridgefoot/Albert Embankment

Hello all - Great resource you have created here!

Received the following PCN from TFL whilst turning right at the Yellow Box Junction:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Pqi6AXKPUFlsZQq8Pi-pHaWQshNCRK6/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_43Aco_jS3BsqeLXIa-1-M2BCtpI064/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13D7znbTMwGjL3kdufadfXpSnJIRIuA5s/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LMz3irnWCVL-yO6fYsZjBeIFgRK2O5AX/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jvbTLwvtfvS75VQEWyzCd83mHnJIxZEC/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lPUndTjLvpmWoKdjxNI_LPpuAdWiEqs_/view?usp=sharing

My dash cam:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nRx3oY3Z3nxXgcFkKw0Xl7kzTx2C9VI8/view?usp=sharing

I have requested the TFL video on the 19th August which has yet to arrive.

I entered the YBJ knowing my exit was unobstructed. During my transit I was aware that a car on my left hand-side was changing lanes mid-corner and was moving across lanes into my path. Believing the encroaching car would continue forwards and not wishing to sustain any damage to my car I stopped short of completing the turn even though my 'exit' remained unobstructed by any stationary vehicles.

I was going to enter my Reps purely on the above statement of fact; although I note the alleged contravention is timed at 10:45hrs, the image is time-stamped whilst I was deemed to within the YBJ. I  have yet to receive the video showing the time I entered the YBJ.

Regards to all, 
   

Lets wait for the TFL video from your dash cam you had plenty of room to exit so no contravention

Appreciated, thank you.

Apologises to all for posting links: It's taken me two days to fathom how to achieve that with help.
 

No worries. I see 007's Aston Martin did not cut you up though!  Considering the location. 

If this goes to the Tribunal, our administrator has an historic relationship with this authority. He may offer to represent you.

Considering how much revenue TFL achieve, one would have thought that they could get their act together in terms of video presentation and access online to make an appeal to the Tribunal.

No worries. I see 007's Aston Martin did not cut you up though!  Considering the location. 

If this goes to the Tribunal, our administrator has an historic relationship with this authority. He may offer to represent you.

Considering how much revenue TFL achieve, one would have thought that they could get their act together in terms of video presentation and access online to make an appeal to the Tribunal.

+++++1  !!!
TfL are in the Dark Ages when it comes to being responsive to PCN recipients. Every council throughout England enforcing YBJs and also bus lanes has their videos on-line so why not TfL. Can it be to discourage appeals ? Surely not !

I have requested the TFL video on the 19th August which has yet to arrive.

Did you receive confirmation of your request?

I have requested the TFL video on the 19th August which has yet to arrive.

Did you receive confirmation of your request?

The request was made by phone. I do have a screen-shot of the TFL status page which records on the 19th August - "On Hold: SUS20 Enquiry Received"

I see 007's Aston Martin did not cut you up though!  Considering the location. 

Oddly enough I did allow a Porsche room to exit the American Embassy at pace only moments before being driven by a worried looking driver - Late lunch with the PM; or realisation that they had unwillingly stopped in the YBJ whilst awaiting a break in traffic?

Video has yet to arrive so I thought I'd pre-prepare a draft. Thinking of keeping it simple but open to suggestions of course.

Dear Transport for London,

In absence of the video recording requested from TFL on the 19th August, whilst also being mindful of the time period imposed for representation; my submission is therefore constrained solely on the still images TFL captured from their video recording in conjunction with my own vehicles on-board footage.

The TFL documentation I received guides me to consult:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/yellow-box-junctions

* How to use a yellow box junction
You can stop in a yellow box junction when turning right if you are prevented from turning by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.


I challenge liability for PCN GX17671732 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur.
This is because whilst my vehicle did stop within the yellow box markings that the stop was not due to the presence of stationary vehicles (?impeding my exit?).
The still images that TFL have published clearly show that there is ample space ahead of my vehicle outside of the box.

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Didn't feel like the correct thing to be doing sending any reps until I'd viewed the video so I made another request on Sep 5th. The TFL status history was once again revised on Sep 11th without any intervention on my part.
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZwrAjnu-9txDOBmrTXIZs0hNKknVoaUN/view?usp=sharing

I did begin to wonder if the original 'SUS20 - Enquiry Received' request didn't generate the video processing? The code now shows as; 'SUS54 DTES Footage Request'.

Quote from: H C Andersen on August 31, 2024, 09:36:18 am
     Did you receive confirmation of your request?

The request was made by phone. I do have a screen-shot of the TFL status page which records on the 19th August - "On Hold: SUS20 Enquiry Received"

Sorry, I was incorrect: I was given a reference number on both occasions (It was lost in the muddle I call a note-book!).

TFL video has arrived.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TJQftsrzid3mUEoPeu6RS46qMybvzYya/view?usp=sharing

Is it good practice to maintain a simple approach at this stage by only affirming my abeyance to the correct use of the YBJ whilst turning right (Exit was clear upon entry; Stop observed within YBJ was not due to stationary vehicles), or should I expand on the 'stop' by explanation of the encroaching lane-hopper?
Would including a link to my Dash-cam footage be of any relevance at this stage?
Is there any merit in mentioning the PCN time-stamp as being 10:45; whereas my entry into the YBJ is approximate to 10:44:47 - Are 'seconds' pertinent and worth consideration?

Thank you in advance of your thoughts.

In lieu of further input and as times running I thought I send this!
 

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability for PCN GX17671732 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur.

This is because whilst my vehicle was indeed observed stopping within the hatched markings it was not due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

Both TFL’s and my own dash-cam video show that upon entering the Yellow Box Junction whilst traversing a right hand manoeuvre there were no stationary vehicles impeding my intended route through the hatched markings and that there is ample space ahead of my vehicle outside of the box. The stop was only necessitated by an encroaching vehicle also wishing to turn right ahead of me.

My video footage may be viewed here: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ln_5TxyNDQup3utoyEcus3GgASOluTli/view?usp=sharing]

Simply by consulting the supporting documentation received from TFL guides me to:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/yellow-box-junctions

* How to use a yellow box junction
You can stop in a yellow box junction when turning right if you are prevented from turning by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

Given the above; I remain extremely perplexed as of the alleged contravention I have deemed to have transgressed.

I hereby request in recognition of the statement of events that the PCN should therefore be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

tally ho...

You had room as PMB has stated.

Familiar story – You wait ages for one DVD and two arrive in sucession. Another DVD arrived from TFL yesterday!

You had room as PMB has stated.

I did make reference to that point within the challenge I submitted today.

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability for PCN GX17671732 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur.

This is because whilst my vehicle was indeed observed stopping within the hatched markings it was not due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

Both TFL’s and my own dash-cam video show that upon entering the Yellow Box Junction whilst traversing a right hand manoeuvre there were no stationary vehicles impeding my intended route through the hatched markings and that there is ample space ahead of my vehicle outside of the box.

My video footage may be viewed here: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ln_5TxyNDQup3utoyEcus3GgASOluTli/view?usp=sharing]

Consulting the supporting documentation received from TFL guides me to:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/yellow-box-junctions

* How to use a yellow box junction
You can stop in a yellow box junction when turning right if you are prevented from turning by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

Given the above; I remain extremely perplexed as of the alleged contravention I have been deemed to have transgressed.

I hereby request in recognition of the above statement of events that the PCN should be cancelled.

Yours respectfully,

I included the 'right hand turn' waffle for my own clarity tbh. I use this junction frequently and would hope any rejection references that point.

@AoP let me know if you get a rejection by tagging me on here, all TFL PCNs can be beaten at present.

@cp8759

Rejection email arrived yesterday. Apparently TFL maintain that I entered the box with no clear exit available. 'Right turn' not considered even though road markings suggest otherwise (albeit without the legend "Turn Right") so perhaps not conclusive.

Rejection received:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1elly2Ji-f47HsHlb8wuVxKQrjGArYGKX/view?usp=sharing

Historic appeals focusing on 'space outside box', 'exit clear on entry' before a tribunal hearing would be most welcomed!