3. Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #15 on: »
Sorry about the false alarm. I had two complaints in with management and they cancelled the other pcn not this one.

This one we just need to persist. The informal challenge has been rejected as 'The CEO observed your vehicle stationary at the above location more than 50cm from the kerb'.

All of it needs to be more than 50cm not just some of it which is always the case. Some of the CEO's scooter was more than 50cm from the kerb which i will point out at the next stage. Even the Citroen Ami is 1.39m wide.

We will win in the end, a waste of tribunal time if we end up there but go there we will if we have to.
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I am currently too busy working to take on any except the most unreasonable PCNs.

I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #16 on: »
Thanks for your help with this.

I'm more than willing to go to tribunal with it. Not just for the injustice of it, but also for the sake of my neighbours not having to worry about getting a ticket in future.
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #17 on: »
Actually just looking at the photo, his scooter would have been causing more of an obstruction than they are arguing I was, because there's a car right opposite him and there's less room to pass there. There's nothing parked opposite my van.
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #18 on: »
I took these yesterday (I moved after I took the photos). You can see there is space for 2 cars to get past me where I was parked.
People park at that part of the roundabout because no cars park opposite because someone's driveway is there, so there is ample space to get past even if one corner of my car is 50cm out.
You can see how difficult it is to get the car straight and tight, even that little car has the rear sticking out.
Lastly the CEO's own scooter is the only vehicle in his photo that is actually causing an obstruction because there are cars parked opposite him and the rear of his scooter is also more than 50cm away from the kerb!







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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #19 on: »
The amount or lack of obstruction caused isn't really relevant to the offence so I'd stop concerning yourself with this. You either parked with the entirety of your vehicle more then 50cm from the edge of the carriageway or you didn't (spoiler, you didn't!).
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #20 on: »
Thanks, yes I understand that.
Just that they didn't address the point about all of the car, they justified it because they say I was causing an obstruction.
As Mr Mustard pointed out, their scooter was parked more than 50cm from the kerb.  I'm just uploading photos that demonstrate that of the 2 of us, the CEO has parked in a way that causes an obstruction, not me.
Cheers

Quote
The Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle stationary at the above
location more than 50cm from the kerb. I must advise you that stopping in this
manner is not permitted and can cause an obstruction to other road users; therefore,
I can confirm that a contravention occurred.
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #21 on: »
IMO waste of Tribunal time should be a ground for costs. Depends of course what the final NOR will say and their subsequent conduct of the appeal - if any.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #22 on: »
OP, I hope this is not being too blunt, but pl just deal with the legal issues:

The contravention descriptions published by London Councils(and approved by the Mayor of London and the Secretary of State) are descriptions, they are not the law;

The law in your case is s85(i) of the Traffic Management Act which by virtue of s85(8) and para. 3(2)(b) of Part 1 of Schedule 7 to the Act is an enforceable road traffic contravention.

In simple terms, a 'contravention' is the act of breaking the law which in this case is:

85Prohibition of double parking etc.
(1)In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway in such a way that no part of the vehicle is within 50 centimetres of the edge of the carriageway.

London Councils' description is:
'parked in a special enforcement area more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway.....'

They've tried to dispense with the double negative of the Act, but IMO made a pig's ear of the result. The meaning of '..such that no part of the vehicle is within 50 centimetres..' should be understandable by even the most challenged CEO and enforcement authority officers but, as your case shows, nothing's perfect!

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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #23 on: »
Not even me!

No, I'm not gonna interfere with the Legal arguments. Mr Mustard has kindly taken that off my hands.
I'm just posting here bare faced cheek of these people. But I guess you guys know that all too well already anyway.
Cheers
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #24 on: »
NTO arrived today. Only 2 letters I've received today, both of them NTOs!







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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #25 on: »
Some thoughts..

I refer to the PCN dated **** and subsequent NTO dated ****.

As the authority should be aware, the prohibition which has been allegedly breached is not based in an Order, but in an Act, in this case s85 Traffic Management Act 2004 (TMA) which for your benefit I have reproduced below:

85 Prohibition of double parking etc.
(1)In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway in such a way that no part of the vehicle is within 50 centimetres of the edge of the carriageway.

8)The prohibition in this section is enforceable as if imposed—

(a)in Greater London, by an order under section 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(RTRA);

Therefore, by virtue of s8 of that Act, a contravention falls within the scope of para. 3(2)(b) of Part 1 of Schedule 7 to the TMA, as follows:

RTRA
8.Contravention of order under s. 6.
(1)Any person who acts in contravention of, or fails to comply with, an order under section 6 of this Act shall be guilty of an offence.

...............
TMA
Other parking contraventions in Greater London

3(1)In Greater London there is a parking contravention in relation to a vehicle if it is stationary in circumstances in which any of the offences listed below is committed.

(2)The offences are—

.....

(b)an offence under section 8, 11, 16(1) or 16C of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (contravention of certain traffic orders)
[/i]

It therefore follows that in order for the authority to establish the contravention it must refer to s85 of the Act and consider the 2 legal issues:

1. Was the vehicle parked on a carriageway, and
2. Were all parts of the car more than 50 cm from the edge of the carriageway?

The CEO's photos show clearly that my car was on a carriageway and that parts of my vehicle were within 50 cm of the edge of carriageway.

Therefore, the council's own evidence shows that the contravention did not occur. The PCN must be cancelled immediately and unconditionally.
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Re: Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26
« Reply #26 on: »
Thank you.
Apologies, actually Mr Mustard is making the representations for this, I should have mentioned that in the post.
I'm guessing this is the argument he will use to challenge it.
Cheers.
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  3. Parked more than 50cm from kerb. Norbury Grove, Barnet. Code 26