Skip to content
Free Traffic Legal Advice
Login Register

Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN

3316 Views 37 Replies

0 Members and 82 Guests are viewing this topic.

« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #30 on:
#31
1. This PCN is missing mandatory information. as provided at 4 (8 ) (v) of
London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003
legislation.gov.uk



(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;



2. I make this collateral challenge regarding the wording of the sentence "If after...." Since the PCN omits mandatory information that the PCN must be paid by 28 days beginning with the date of the notice, the said statement therefore conflates the two distinct time periods and renders the PCN unclear and invalid.  In light of the above, please cancel.


After thought:  why not ask them for the original PCN? It will not be the same!
Last Edit: August 12, 2025, 09:47:16 am by Hippocrates
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #31 on:
#32
Interesting, never thought of appealing on the grounds of wording, a bit daunting as its a firt for me, and most probably they will reject, at which point the fine will deffinitly stick at £130.

Whats the likelyhood that those 2 ground mentioned would get this overturned at adjudication or is it a 50/50

Quote from: Hippocrates on August 12, 2025, 09:40:26 am
1. This PCN is missing mandatory information. as provided at 4 (8 ) (v) of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted


(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
This is mentioned on one of the pages, see attached, at the end as part of the 'How to make represenation' it says

"If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served no such representations have been made, and the penatly charge has not been paid, we may increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195 an dmay takes steps to enforce payment of the increased charge." - So I assume point 1 cannot be used any longer?
Logged
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #32 on:
#33
Quote from: Hippocrates on August 12, 2025, 09:40:26 am
2. I make this collateral challenge regarding the wording of the sentence "If after...." Since the PCN omits mandatory information that the PCN must be paid by 28 days beginning with the date of the notice, the said statement therefore conflates the two distinct time periods and renders the PCN unclear and invalid.  In light of the above, please cancel.

Have read this, slightly confused, as it does have that mandatory information, on the first page of the PCN where it says 'The pentatly charge must be paid not later then the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice.

Am I misunderstanding this point?

Logged
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #33 on:
#34
Read the sentence. It refers to 28 days from the date of service.

"If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served no such representations have been made, and the penalty charge has not been paid, we may increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195 an may takes steps to enforce payment of the increased charge."

Is it that clear?
Last Edit: August 12, 2025, 03:06:10 pm by Hippocrates
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #34 on:
#35
Quote from: Hippocrates on August 12, 2025, 03:03:47 pm
Read the sentence. It refers to 28 days from the date of service.

I've read it, possibly im missing something so obvious or my level english is not up to par with that required for this point of the appeal :/

Para. 4 (8 ) (V) doesn't mention anything about using either of the wording 'Service' or 'Notice' or that it has to be combined with Para. 4 (8 ) (iii) which they've stated on Page 1 of the PCN.

Quote from: Hippocrates on August 12, 2025, 03:03:47 pm
"If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served no such representations have been made, and the penalty charge has not been paid, we may increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195 an may takes steps to enforce payment of the increased charge."

The 'And' would be correct, as you would have to have not done both of those, otherwise had you done one then they would not increase the fine.
Last Edit: August 13, 2025, 01:54:47 am by LondonTraveller84
Logged
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #35 on:
#36
Hi Hippocrates, wondering if you're able to have a quick check on the below, so I can decide if I go forth with the appeal or bite the bullet on this and pay the discounted rate thats still odly showing even though its past the 14 days :O

Logged
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
Reply #36 on:
#37
OP, as a minor correction, the references are not to 4(8)... they should be to 4(8)(a)....

It's better if you see the requirement in full and then you can compare with the PCN, hopefully this would improve your understanding:

[4(8)(a)]

(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a)state—

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]
« previous next »