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Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road

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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #30 on:
#31
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #33 on:
#34
Quote from: cp8759 on December 11, 2023, 03:29:53 pm
The London Borough of Hounslow (Hounslow Town Centre South) (Parking Places) Order 2023, see page 49.

"PART II - DESIGNATION OF PARKING PLACES
4. Designation of parking places
(1) The areas of highway as described in column 2 of Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 are designated as parking places.
(2) The limits of each parking place and the limits of each parking space, if marked within a parking place, shall be indicated on the highway by traffic signs of any size, colour and type prescribed or authorised under Section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
5. Manner of standing in a parking place
(1) Every vehicle left in a parking place shall stand so that every part of the vehicle is wholly within the limits of any parking space if marked, or within the limits of any parking place.
(2) Every vehicle left in a parking place in relation to which special provisions as to the manner of standing of a vehicle in that parking place is specified in column 3 of Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 shall stand so as to be in accordance with those provisions."
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #37 on:
#38
IMO, I don't think you have a case.

1. The NTO appears to comply with regulatory requirements;
2. The TMO deals with the parking places in Upton as it is required i.e. it specifies that the manner of standing for these parking places alone is '2 wheels on the footway'; (OK, they've not used the correct traffic sign but instead used 2, one to indicate the parking place and another to indicate 'parking in marked bays'. Councils just can't get this right, but as you weren't in a marked bay anyway, IMO it's academic);
3. You were parked with 2 wheels on the footway where the London-wide prohibition applies;
4. None of the legal exemptions applies, see 15(3) here:
Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974
An Act to confer further powers upon the Greater London Council and other authorities; and for other purposes.
legislation.gov.uk

5. The DYL and the wrong traffic sign have nothing whatsoever to do with the alleged contravention. 

Your optimum outcomes are:
They re-offer the discount, and/or
They mess up their response - another procedural hurdle for them to negotiate.
Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 11:34:21 am by H C Andersen
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #39 on:
#40
Try this even though it has had success and failure. At least it will give them something to think about:



The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @ 
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022
These Regulations, together with the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 (S.I. 2022/XXXX), provide for the civil enforcement of...
legislation.gov.uk


(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.
Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 01:40:24 pm by Hippocrates
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #41 on:
#42
Everything should be included.  Show us a draft first please.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #42 on:
#43
Please let me know if the below draft is ok to be sent:

Dear Sirs,

I would like to appeal the penalty charge served upon me.

The council has allowed parking on both sides of the road just a few meters ahead of where the car was parked. To any layman it would appear or make sense to follow the line and length of the car parked ahead as the road is as narrow and there is an underground car parking opposite the DYLs, the space is very narrow and the chances of hitting the parked car are high if not parked on the pathway.

A pathway is where a pedestrian can walk safely and if the safety has been compromised by leaving a very narrow space where the houses are, and the pedestrian footfall is high there then it doesn't make sense to allow PCN where there is a lot of space on the footpath just behind the marked spaces where there is a car park just opposite where a car coming from the opposite direction cannot turn.
So technically either the restriction of DYLs should be completely removed (had there been no DYLs restrictions sign, the driver wouldn’t have parked the car and the Penalty wouldn’t have arisen) or the TMO should allow the parking on the curb throughout the road considering there is an underground car park opposite to the DYLs where there are high chances of an accident whilst the car coming from the car park is manoeuvring.
In addition, the wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para.2 @https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2 (d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred.

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.
Also, I would like to request a Traffic Management Order for the road In case of an unsuccessful appeal.

Yours sincerely,
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #43 on:
#44
In light of this procedural impropriety and the other representations, please cancel the PCN.

Also, I request any relevant Traffic Management Order.



Sorry can't say anymore at present.  Wait for others to chip in.
Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 02:35:34 pm by Hippocrates
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
Reply #44 on:
#45
You've seen the TMO (obtained and posted earlier by cp) and I referred to it in my last posts. Parking on the footway in parking places is permitted because this is the manner of standing prescribed in the order. There is no footway parking resolution.

IMO, the tone of your reps is wrong. Your argument is that as the cars immediately ahead were parked on the footway then you assumed this applied to where you were as the contextual factors were the same e.g. narrow road etc. However, it appears your assumption was incorrect. However, you would ask the authority to exercise discretion on this occasion.*

It has also been brought to your attention that there is a regulatory flaw in the PCN i.e. ********* which you believe constitutes what is referred to in the NTO grounds as a procedural impropriety.


*- sometimes I suggest that owners add 'and as I have an unblemished parking record in the borough' ....but as you have another current footway parking thread I'm inclined to think that you might have had previous run-ins with the authority. Only you know.
Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 04:48:42 pm by H C Andersen
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