Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road

Hi all,

Wondering if I’ve got an argument at all here, but may need to bite the bullet.

I got a PCN from Camden council date of notice 10/10/2023 and date of contravention was 26/09/2023. It’s a very sneaky camera preventing cards driving through this section of TCR.

It was actually my mother driving me from my wisdom teeth removal surgery at the UCLH, and she took this route home. I was heavily sedated from the operation but I don’t know if this argument would stand.

I attach here all picture evidence along with the PCN. https://imgur.com/a/YcovWL1

GSV:

https://imgur.com/a/OLQD5BL

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Well, you've gone past a bus gate sign. Can you give us a GSV link to the location please.

As for the PCN, I'm not sure that is the right sign for the contravention on the PCN. But I'm not an expert so see what the others say, but don't miss any deadlines on the PCN.

I’ve included a GSV link now

I’ve included a GSV link now

Sign is plain enough, but GSV is a bit of a dog's breakfast around here. I am trying to see if there is any advance warning.

Reading articles and even cabbies are getting tickets, I’m guessing I’ve got no grounds to fight here ..

Video:



One argument worth raising is that the PCN does not state the exact location, and there is a very significant number of restrictions on Tottenham Court Road, so much so that in Commercial Plant Services Ltd v London Borough of Camden (223028230A, 19 July 2023) the council got itself in a muddle about where the allegation was supposed to have taken place.

Another somewhat more involved strategy is to give the council a link to a video or image you want them to consider, and setting it up view a click / view counter so we can prove whether they're looked at your supporting evidence. If they fail to look at it, you can then win on a failure to consider.

Thanks cp, this sounds like an argument worth pursuing especially with case backing it up somewhat. What grounds would this be appealed then? Unclear signage? The letter literally says in “Tottenham Court Road” but their argument would be it actually is TCR.

I can have a go at writing a draft and posting it here before I appeal

My first draft for appeal below, appreciate any feedback:

Dear sir/madam,

I’m appealing the PCN on the grounds that the council have failed to sufficiently specify the place where the alleged contravention occurred. The PCN states that the incident took place in “Tottenham Court Road W1” - a road that stretches for approximately 1.2km. In the case of Young vs Day, 1959 EWHC 1, commentary from Mr Justice Salmon highlighted the need to specify the exact location of the road under Road Traffic Act, 1930 s. 21, especially in the case of a long London road. He used the example of how “Oxford Street” would not be sufficient enough when specifying a place in London. This would equally apply when merely stating “Tottenham Court Road” as has been done in this case.

More recently, in the case of Commercial Plant Services Ltd vs London Borough of Camden, 2023 it was found that location of the alleged contravention is not sufficiently specified, especially given that in the Camden (Prescribed Routes) (No5) (Part 2) Traffic Order 2020 there are seven different locations along Tottenham Court Road where the alleged contravention could have taken place. As such, the appeal was upheld.

Therefore, this PCN should be cancelled.

Regards

That's the best draft I've seen from a new member in a long time!

Send it off and let's see what they say.

Councils response: https://imgur.com/a/h9kxW6y

They’ve allowed my appeal but not for the reasons intended. A bit strange but I’ll take it. Thanks for your help.

Probably referring to this: https://news.met.police.uk/news/fatal-collision-on-tottenham-court-road-472747

Part of me thinks the council didn’t want to take this to Tribunal in any case

I have received 3 PCN letters for driving on Tottenham Court 31/10/2024 all 3 minutes from each other.
I am a full-time cyclist and only use my car occasionally.
The GPS was set to cycle route mode, causing the mistake.
Happy to pay one penalty but not all three. Can you please advise.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I have received 3 PCN letters for driving on Tottenham Court 31/10/2024 all 3 minutes from each other.
I am a full-time cyclist and only use my car occasionally.
The GPS was set to cycle route mode, causing the mistake.
Happy to pay one penalty but not all three. Can you please advise.

Florence.

You need to create your own thread for advice.

We operate a one case per thread rule here to avoid any confusion.

I am going to post my own thread, but this was an interesting post to me as we've just received two PCN's from Tottenham Court Road.

They've obviously got wise to just saying TCR W1 as our two state the junction names!

Well done on getting the PCN cancelled 

I had to sign up just to let you guys know my result and thank the OP for the advice.

Just had 6 PCN's cancelled for the same reason!!! What a result

Council response: https://imgur.com/a/CCIF5Hg