Author Topic: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?  (Read 7595 times)

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DWMB2

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2024, 09:42:45 pm »
All you need to do is read through some of the postings in the council tickets forum; if you want to challenge private tickets, read through the private tickets section. there's a lot to. tak in. Don't be afraid to post on here
That last bit especially. Reading as much as you can is a very good idea (especially the 'Read This First' posts...), as that ideally means you have at least a rudimentary idea of some of the concepts involved before posting, which will make your post more informative, and as such elicit better advice in response.

But, don't be afraid to post for advice before taking action. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing... I've seen a good few cases where people have fired off an appeal having read a bunch of what they thought were similar cases, without posting here, then by the time they do post here it turns out they have inadvertently harmed their own case.

cp8759

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2024, 10:38:54 pm »
But, don't be afraid to post for advice before taking action. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing... I've seen a good few cases where people have fired off an appeal having read a bunch of what they thought were similar cases, without posting here, then by the time they do post here it turns out they have inadvertently harmed their own case.
We've seen that a lot in the council forum too.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2024, 09:18:39 pm »
The problem is that the general person in the street (yes, pun intended) believes that a case won at the Tribunal is case law. I have had very detailed discussions with such (a friend) last week.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2024, 08:44:33 pm »
I surmise that my first outing with the shirt may have played a part in one of these decisions:

2240406384  :o (Not even allowed to sit at the bench)

2240418124 not even mentioned.  :'(

2240417904 these were completely re-arranged and were supposed to be consolidated for a hearing in November.  :o

Never a dull moment in this game. :)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 08:47:07 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2024, 08:37:33 am »
I heard with great sadness yesterday that someone has just paid his PCN for the infamous bus lane at Eden Street Kingston.

https://youtu.be/dmo43oExMxs

Sadly, The Mugged Club has another member.  :(



How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2024, 11:17:39 am »
Leahurst Road, Lewisham. Yesterday, I managed to save one guy £130 by stopping him.

https://youtu.be/jyCB3hctV5c

They have added new signs; but, the warning signs are still rather small. So, this is still worth a fight.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2024, 01:30:50 pm »
I heard with great sadness yesterday that someone has just paid his PCN for the infamous bus lane at Eden Street Kingston.

https://youtu.be/dmo43oExMxs

Sadly, The Mugged Club has another member.  :(

Dear Mr Kirsch

I attach several videos which were taken yesterday afternoon in the space of 20 minutes.

I kook forward to your response as to what you are going to do about this unfair discrimination.

I also witnessed a car cutting up a cyclist by performing an illegal left turn from Eden Street into Union Street and I believe you do not enforce this by camera. Not only was this illegal but also the car reversed into the main road (Eden Street) in order to complete the move.

Yours sincerely

James Bond

Videos:

https://youtu.be/WUMGYkfzdj0

https://youtu.be/ndAdK60EaNo

https://youtu.be/wd8-slu5dk4


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2025, 02:47:10 pm »
Bus stop outside Waitrose, Surbiton. A job for Superman.  :D

https://youtu.be/QyIzGsItKBg
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2025, 02:48:45 pm »
Bus stop opposite Sainsburys, Surbiton. Sunburnt.  :D

https://youtu.be/Mnv0YegvJs0
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2025, 03:06:10 pm »
Bus stop outside Post Office, Surbiton.

https://youtu.be/GNwWcIT8oeQ
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

NigelJK

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2025, 11:31:43 am »
I haven't read the whole thread, but did read the first few pages.

The first thing that struck me was that the real question is how are the PPCs able to raise 40,000 invoices a day (not my figure, but one of the experts here) that rely on the threat of legal action to extort money from individuals? And then, when it gets to the actual legal part of it, many, if not all, discontinue. I realise I'm preaching to the converted here, but the answer to your question is simply 'publicity'.

There was talk of a website to help channel people down the correct route, and I remember Pepipoo used to have a similar 'calculator' for NIPs etc. Looking at JUST PPCs and their increasingly automated processes, it  appears that in order to rebuff them we need an automated process also.

As it happens I've been writing software for over 30 years and could probably get something rudimentary together fairly quickly.

Judging by the speed of responses from SP83 and the OP I'm guessing you have some boiler plated responses prepared, this would be a good starting point.

PM me if your interested/agree that we need something to take up the 'easy win' tickets. @Southpaw82 : If this is to progress the best place for it would be as part of this site, and for that we'd need the owners permission. It's possible to host it elsewhere, if required, but would be better within this sites' mechanism for maintenance etc.

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2025, 11:24:29 am »
Sounds good to me.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

sparxy

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2025, 06:02:57 pm »
Judging by the speed of responses from SP83 and the OP I'm guessing you have some boiler plated responses prepared, this would be a good starting point.

PM me if your interested/agree that we need something to take up the 'easy win' tickets. @Southpaw82 : If this is to progress the best place for it would be as part of this site, and for that we'd need the owners permission. It's possible to host it elsewhere, if required, but would be better within this sites' mechanism for maintenance etc.

Whilst I have toyed with (and mocked up a wizard like site with upload facility), the biggest barrier is the end user and their comprehension of the paperwork or situation in front of them. Some of the key timings / information need people to accurately answer questions and (for instance) know what stage they are at.
Unless you're getting AI/OCR involved with scans or pictures, as demonstrated by threads on here sometimes not getting the details required even 4-5-6 posts in, the weakest link is going to be the user.

Perhaps a better option would be for the user to start the process, it to be moderated/validated for the stage they are at, then allow the automated system to continue?

If you do need any help just shout.

coffee pot

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2025, 10:46:46 pm »
You need a front end/ triage process - what happened? when? leading people very gently through the process, however slow it may seem to a seasoned user. An example from real life is the software that ambulance services use, which features a preset menu of questions that must be asked of all callers. If someone calls about someone else, the first question shown to the calltaker is "Is the patient conscious and breathing?" An answer of "Yes" triggers one response and a second question to ask is shown to the calltaker, "no" automatically identifies the closest available ambulance in the background and dispatches it towards the approximate location. I won't go into details of how that is obtained, but it is. The question is still asked if the person can be heard shouting. The questions plod through everything, but only easy questions are asked. It's just a question of making the software work round the user as smoothly as possible.

NigelJK

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2025, 09:39:42 am »
Yeah the idea was that the process would start simply and given the answers would branch where required.

Shall I start a proper thread for this in the flame pit and we can put the current state of play on the first page?