Author Topic: Totting up offence  (Read 240 times)

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Totting up offence
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Does anyone have any expertise in totting up offences that could lead to a potential ban

I had 2 speeding fines in July - but the paperwork wasn't received (for a variety of reasons) until late October - at that time I had a legacy 6 points on my licence

2 different police areas so 2 different enforcement teams - both elements are pushing for a magistrates appearance

Can anyone help on this - to be honest I was speeding but they are looking to prosecute for a points speeding offence when technically now I have zero points

Thanks

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Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #1 on: »
More details needed.

All dates, both of old and new offences. Alleged speeds and limits.

What do you mean by "pushing"? What have you actually received, either in October or later? Again, dates.

The reason for the court referral will be that it is too late for anything else.

Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #2 on: »
We have lots of expertise regarding endorseable motoring offences and totting up. If only we had an OP who had some expertise in providing relevant information to enable us to utilise such expertise...

Or even an OP that was capable of finding the cunningly hidden "READ THIS FIRST" sticky at the top of this forum, and following the instructions in the title.

As has been said "are pushing for" is meaningless gibberish. Either tell us what they said, or don't.

For the purposes of totting up, it is the dates of the offences that matter - if you get 12 or more points from offences committed within a 3 year period, you are liable to tot up.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #3 on: »
What points you have now is irrelevant. It's the number of points you had when the offences were committed which count.

Points are "active" for totting up purposes for three years from the date of the offence. If that number reaches twelve within that period you face a mandatory disqualification of six months. You can reduce or avoid this ban entirely if you can show ha you or others will suffer "exceptional hardship" as a result.

You haven't said why there was a delay to the enforcement process. The date the process is eventually concluded is of no importance (other than it delays the start of any ban that might be imposed). If you delayed it in an attempt to avoid a ban you have wasted the effort.

Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #4 on: »
We have lots of expertise regarding endorseable motoring offences and totting up. If only we had an OP who had some expertise in providing relevant information to enable us to utilise such expertise...

Or even an OP that was capable of finding the cunningly hidden "READ THIS FIRST" sticky at the top of this forum, and following the instructions in the title.

As has been said "are pushing for" is meaningless gibberish. Either tell us what they said, or don't.

For the purposes of totting up, it is the dates of the offences that matter - if you get 12 or more points from offences committed within a 3 year period, you are liable to tot up.

Andy - thanks but go easy mate - this is all a first for me and I am massively unsure on what is really happening

Appreciate I hadn't quite read the read first bit and I appreciate that must be frustrating for you ...

Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #5 on: »
What points you have now is irrelevant. It's the number of points you had when the offences were committed which count.

Points are "active" for totting up purposes for three years from the date of the offence. If that number reaches twelve within that period you face a mandatory disqualification of six months. You can reduce or avoid this ban entirely if you can show ha you or others will suffer "exceptional hardship" as a result.

You haven't said why there was a delay to the enforcement process. The date the process is eventually concluded is of no importance (other than it delays the start of any ban that might be imposed). If you delayed it in an attempt to avoid a ban you have wasted the effort.

Thanks Newjudge - that makes sense now - looks like I need to take this on the chin and and explain the exceptional hardship bits

generally is it best to go to court to explain the hardship or does a well crafted written explanation work out ok; suppose the other question is how useful is using a solicitor or am I just wasting money

Appreciate the precise details aren't in this post - and apologies

Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
…generally is it best to go to court to explain the hardship or does a well crafted written explanation…

You will be required to attend court for two reasons:

1. The court will not disqualify you in your absence without first giving you the opportunity to attend.
2. If you make an exceptional hardship (EH) argument you will be required to give evidence of that hardship under oath or affirmation.

You haven’t given us too much detail to go on but since the two offences were in separate areas there is something you need to beware of. If either of the offences is serious enough to see six points imposed (and so trigger a totting up ban) you do not want to have that heard, make a successful EH argument and avoid a ban, only to then be brought to court for the second. If you avoid a ban, the points remain on your licence and when you attend for the second offence you will face a totting up ban again. You cannot make a second EH argument, using the same reasons, within three years of the first. Ideally you need to arrange to have both charges heard at the same time.

Here is the guidance which Magistrates use when considering an EH argument:

When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:

It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence.

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable.

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.


So, having considered that, what hardship which is “exceptional” will you or others suffer if you are banned?

Re: Totting up offence
« Reply #7 on: »
You haven't said why there was a delay to the enforcement process.

It might be helpful if you could answer this. NIPs need to be served within 14 days of offence. There are exceptions where the driver is not the RK, or current details held by the DVLA are not up to date, but it would be prudent to examine if there is any defence due to late service.