Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all,

I got a lovely section 172 notice (asking for driver details) from thames valley police today. This was bare bones on any info but basically said they were considering prosecution for "careless driving" and the location and date and time of the offence. Im confused as the offence was dated 20/05/24 and the date on the notice was 08/08/24. I wasnt stopped by an officer at the time and dont remember any incidents at all. So im in the dark atm. My confusion stems from the fact i didnt receive a nip within 14 days of the offence. It is now well over 50 days since it happened in fact. Im going to reply on the 172 with my details, as i know failing to provide details is a seperate offence but plan to add a cover letter asking if the offence will be time barred as i didnt receive a nip at all. Anyone have any experience of this and has anyone ever been prosecuted for careless driving without a nip?

Any replies welcome

I wasnt involved in any accident thats for sure. I guess im just gonna have to wait and see what happens after i return the 172 notice. I honestly have no memory of any incidents at the location. I know i sometimes overtake traffic there, as there is a long run up to a roundabout and usually slow moving traffic leading up to it. I wonder if this could be something to do with it. I cant think of anything else if im honest. Ive been doing this route for nearly 10 years though and if conditions allow, i always overtake slower vehicles at this point...so wonder what the issue is. I guess i have the nervous wait now for the next letter.

Im the registered keeper and own the vehicle outright. There is no issue with the notice being sent elsewhere incorrectly before i got this one. This also seems to be their first correspondence with me (not a follow up letter, with first being missed) and is just a 172 asking for driver details, rather then a nip aswell (which i believe they usually send nip and 172 together). So far as im concerned i havent been nipped for the offence so far....

Anyone ever had this before? I read a few articles online and its stated that the offence of careless driving usually requires a verbal nip at time of offence or one sent by post within 14 days of offence. I also read this doesn't apply if someone is hurt in an accident. I 100% have not been involved in an accident so im completely in the dark at the moment with it.

Anyone had anything similar happen to them?

Ok well, i guess i just need tvp to get back to me with circumstances and evidence then and see where to go from there.

If im in the wrong then ill own the mistake. im just in the dark with this whole thing at the moment. I have a clean license, so im hoping if worst comes to worst to possibly accept a course or ticket and avoid court. Ill update once i hear back from them.

Im the registered keeper and own the vehicle outright...

Have you actually looked at your V5C to confirm that your name and - especially - your address are both recorded correctly?

The name and address on that document are what are used to send out the first NIP.  Any discrepancy would explain delayed or missing paperwork.

Ok well, i guess i just need tvp to get back to me with circumstances and evidence then and see where to go from there.

To expand on what SP says, you aren't entitled to any of that ahead of the matter going to court, if you are likely to plead/be found guilty you really want to avoid that happening and take an out of court settlement (course or fixed penalty) which will be 'less painful'.  A polite request for help with details of the allegation may well see them provide some of the information.

For careless, that could be a close pass of a cyclist or pulling out on another road user and may well have been reported via 'operation snap'.

Quote from: Bucksdriver on August 14, 2024, 08:48:40 am

... I know i sometimes overtake traffic there, as there is a long run up to a roundabout and usually slow moving traffic leading up to it...

If you are using the approach to the roundabout to overtake slow moving traffic, could you possibly be using a right turn only lane but going straight on?

No mate, this is a single carriageway road at national speed limit. It doesnt have a solid line in middle. It splits into two lanes once it reaches the roundabout and both are straight on lanes (or left turn for left lane, right turn for right lane).

There are many things that could potentially constitute careless driving. Currently they constitute idle speculation.

What is perhaps notable is that the s. 172 notice was apparently not incorporated into a NIP. My understanding is that this is far more prevalent when a NIP is seemingly required due to an RTC, but beyond that, and taking the OP's claim that it was not a NIP at face value, I would only suggest that it was unlikely that an earlier NIP was sent anywhere. I do not recall ever hearing of a NIP-less s. 172 for an Operation Snap or similar on the basis that the issuer felt that no NIP was required due to the reasonable practicability exception, or even for mobile phone offences.

As any fule kno, the RTC exception only applies if the driver was aware of the RTC.

In general, if a defence relies on the accused's credibility it is helpful to set out his stall early. As the OP suggests, he should include a covering letter with his s. 172 response, asking for clarification of what exactly he is being accused of.