Author Topic: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing licence details.  (Read 421 times)

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NormalMaverick

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I often rent cars with ZipCar to drive in London. In June 2024, I received two back to back Notices of Intended Prosecution for speeding:
  • 16-Jun: Driving 25mph in a 20mph zone
  • 23-Jun: Driving 47mpg in a 40mph zone

These notices both state "Please provide your license number" etc., which I did. They also state "Please DO NOT send in your licence or a copy if issued by DVLA". My licence is issued by DVLA in the UK, so I did not send anything.

I filled out the form and paid both of the £100 notices promptly in July as soon as I got them. However, I missed the part of the FPN that asks for licence details, mistakenly assuming that paying the fine was all that was needed.

I have just received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for the second offence (23-Jun, driving 47mph in a 40mph). The witness statement within this notice (from the Camera Processing Caseworker) states:
Quote
"The driver failed to satisfy the requirements of the Fixed Penalty, the Fixed Penalty was paid but they failed to provide their licence details for electronic endorsement and a refund was requested.

The driver did not satisfy the requirements of the Fixed Penalty offer within the specified timeframe. As a result, the offer of a Fixed Penalty has been withdrawn.

The matter was therefore referred to the Prosecution Team for a Single Justice Notice to be issued."

I correctly filled in my licence number in the Section 172 Statement with the Notice of Intended Prosecution I received. I also never requested a refund of my payment.

The Single Justice Procedure notice I have received asks me how I plead and whether I want to come to court.

What are my next steps here? Specifically, the questions I have are:
  • Should I go to court to explain this, or simply plead guilty to the administrative screwup?
  • What is the expected penalty for this? I have no previous convictions of any form
  • How long will this remain on my record and will it affect future employment?
  • Will I receive a second Single Justice Procedure notice for the first speeding offence?

Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 10:43:53 am by NormalMaverick »

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666

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Quote from: Normal

What are my next steps here? Specifically, the questions I have are:
[list type=decimal
[li]Should I go to court to explain this, or simply plead guilty to the administrative screwup?[/li]
[li]What is the expected penalty for this? I have no previous convictions of any form[/li]
[li]How long will this remain on my record and will it affect future employment?[/li]
[li]Will I receive a second Single Justice Procedure notice for the first speeding offence?[/li]
[/list]

Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!
1. No need to attend court. Plead guilty, and ask the court to consider sentencing you at the fixed penalty level.

2. Three points. If the court ignorer your request, then an income-related fine, 40% surcharge, and c.£90 costs.

3. The points remain on your record for four years, the first three of which count for totting-up purposes. If these are the only three points you have, then extremely unlikely to affect employment unless as a professional driver.

4. For the first offence, proceedings would need to have begun by 16th December. It's anyone's guess whether that happened: there may be a nasty surprise delayed in the Xmas post.

andy_foster

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Technically, you received an SJPN for the speeding offence. You were offered an alternative disposal (the COFP), but [on the face of it at least] failed to comply with the requirements to accept it. We see this a lot.

Personally, I am not entirely convinced that paying online does not satisfy the statutory identification requirements, which would render subsequent prosecution unlawful, but the courts have historically been slow to find that the police have made such widespread fatal errors (floodgates), and anyone who failed to read the notice properly, and therefore found themselves in this position, is probably not the best person to run such an argument.

For the sake of completeness, if the statutory requirements to accept the COFP are complied with, the driver cannot lawfully be prosecuted. They are set out in section 75 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. Basically, other than not being liable to tot up, payment has to be made to the appropriate person within the suspended enforcement period (28 days from date of issue), and the identification details have to be provided to the appropriate person within the same period. For the purposes of payment, the appropriate person is the fixed penalty clerk. For the purposes of the identification information, the appropriate person is the fixed penalty clerk. The requirement for identification information is satisfied if either the appropriate person is satisfied as to your identity, or you provide the appropriate person with your name, licence number and date of birth. A UK licence number incorporates the holder's date of birth (albeit only 2 digits for the year - unless this has changed for those born 2000 onwards).
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mdann52

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I didn't think the online form required inputting all the required details under the legislation? I haven't had to do it myself though, only seen screenshots, so happy to be corrected.

I think it's going to come down to the DoB - the driving licence number still only contains two digits for year of birth, so it's possible for two people born in different centuries to have the same licence number, minus the last few random digits
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 06:39:24 pm by mdann52 »

andy_foster

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The oldest licence holder in the UK is 108. The youngest is 16. Drivers over the age of 100 will have been been born 1916 - 1925. Nobody born after 2009 holds a driving licence.

00 - 09 == 2000 - 2009
10 - 15 == nobody alive
16 - 99 == 1916 - 1999

There are many reasons why such a defence might fail, but ambiguity over a 2 digit year of birth is not one of them. For an overlap, there would need to be a licence holder aged 115+
« Last Edit: January 02, 2025, 07:35:24 pm by andy_foster »
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sparxy

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so it's possible for two people born in different centuries to have the same licence number, minus the last few random digits

Not to mention the same first, middle (or lack of) and last names, and the random digit.

ABCDE (5 digits of surname) YMMDDY (Decade of year, month 01-12 if male or 51-62 if female, day 01-28,29,30,31, last digit of year) F (First initial), M (Middle initial or 9), Random digit (normally 9), ZZ (Computer check digits).

NormalMaverick

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4. For the first offence, proceedings would need to have begun by 16th December. It's anyone's guess whether that happened: there may be a nasty surprise delayed in the Xmas post.

Thank you user 666. One question about point 4, you say that proceedings would have begun by 16th December.

I have dug through old documents and found the FPN I received for the first offence (which I received nothing for), along with the form I was supposed to send in. Will it help at all if I send it in now?

Or, is it possible that nothing has happened for the first offence on 16th June, and me sending in my licence information will only trigger another SJPN?

666

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I have dug through old documents and found the FPN I received for the first offence (which I received nothing for), along with the form I was supposed to send in. Will it help at all if I send it in now?

Or, is it possible that nothing has happened for the first offence on 16th June, and me sending in my licence information will only trigger another SJPN?

I think you mean COFP, not FPN. Whatever, the answer is no., it wouldn't help. But it's too late to trigger another SJPN.


NormalMaverick

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I think you mean COFP, not FPN. Whatever, the answer is no., it wouldn't help. But it's too late to trigger another SJPN.

Yes I did mean COFP, apologies.

Out of curiousity, why is it too late for the police to trigger another SJPN? Is it because 6 months have passed since the offence, and the £100 I paid for the COFP has not been refunded as yet?

NewJudge

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Out of curiousity, why is it too late for the police to trigger another SJPN? Is it because 6 months have passed since the offence, and the £100 I paid for the COFP has not been refunded as yet?

If i is more than six months from the date of the offence it is too late for proceedings to be taken. All that went before (in the way of fixed penalty offers) are irrelevant to that.

Have you checked your licence online to see if any convictions have been recorded against you?

NormalMaverick

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If i is more than six months from the date of the offence it is too late for proceedings to be taken. All that went before (in the way of fixed penalty offers) are irrelevant to that.

Have you checked your licence online to see if any convictions have been recorded against you?

Thank you NewJudge. It has been 6 months from the 1st offence, and I have no penalties, offences or points recorded on my licence.

Does this mean that I paid the £100 for the first offence (on 16th June) but did not send my licence info, and it basically fell through the cracks of the system and the matter is closed?

That would be a big relief if so!

andy_foster

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If proceedings have not been instigated within the 6 months (from date of offence), they cannot [lawfully] instigate proceedings.
You will not generally know whether or not proceedings have been instigated unless/until you receive the SJPN.

No matter how many times you ask the same question, the answer is still the same.
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NormalMaverick

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If proceedings have not been instigated within the 6 months (from date of offence), they cannot [lawfully] instigate proceedings.
You will not generally know whether or not proceedings have been instigated unless/until you receive the SJPN.

No matter how many times you ask the same question, the answer is still the same.

Okay, thank you very much! Keeping my fingers crossed.