Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello all, was hoping for some advice or even just to speak to someone who has been in the same position as myself.

I travelled down to London on the M1 on 25/08/24. It was on the late night journey back that I have been caught speeding on the M1 Northbound. I receieved an NIP from Derbyshire Police only 2 days after getting back, having been caught doing 61mph in a 50mph. From the little research I did it didn't seem that I had any valid defence to this, so I filled out the form and returned it as instructed. This is my first offence so assumed a speed awareness course would be appropriate and happy to take this and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

However, I receieved a second NIP just today from South Yorkshire Police saying I was caught doing 58mph in a 50mph zone. This being on the same road, only 17 minutes apart. I have yet to fill out the online response to this NIP, as I first wanted to see if this can be argued as already being dealt with via the first NIP that I have responded to. Would this involve getting a solicitor or is it simply a case of going through the police and courts and explaining the case?

Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the fair and honest advice. Out of interest, what has been argued as a winning case of being one continuous offense? Are there certain parameters that must be met for that arguement to stand?

You would need to have been exceeding a single limit for the entire period of time - ie 61 all the way and 50 limit all the way ... which is not likely?

Just to add some more context:

1st NIP: 01:17:13 At M1 J29 Heath (North Bound) J28-29     Speed: 61mph   Speed Limit: 50mph
2nd NIP: 01:34:39 At M1 Woodall Services-J31 Northbound TASCAR Near Scheme     Speed:58mph   Speed Limit: 50mph

This is the 5th post I’ve seen for someone doing 61mph in 50mph zone in the same area, same date / time. Plus myself now, just wanted to put it out there as yet to see someone receive notice for a different speed at this location/date.

A question for the more knowledgeable posters.

Would it even be possible for the two separate offences to be treated as one continuous offence seeing as they occurred in the jurisdiction of two different police forces?

If the two were from a single police force you could ask them to treat it as a continuous single offence. If they agreed you would be offered a course or fixed penalty. I think it would be unlikely to succeed in view of the distance apart the offences occurred. There's nothing to stop you asking South Yorkshire police if they would make the same consideration, though I doubt they'd agree.

This leaves you with the option of declining an out-of-court disposal and having the matters heard in court. You can make the same argument there (a single continuous offence) or you could argue that they were two separate offences but were committed "on the same occasion". There is no definition of this but if he court found in your favour you would have two convictions, two fines (and "victim surcharges") two endorsements, but only one lot of penalty points.

Looking at this pragmatically, if you accept two out-of-court disposals from the police they will probably offer you one course and one fixed penalty. This will see you with total costs of about £200 together with one endorsement and three points.

If you go to court the best outcome you can hope for is that the court agrees it was one continuous offence. The result of this (with you being sentenced in accordance with the normal guidelines) is a fine of half a week's income, reduced by a third for a guilty plea, so a third of a week's income. You will also pay a surcharge of 40% of the fine and prosecution costs of around £90. So even if the fine was calculated at just £100 (meaning your income was just £300 per week) it will still cost you £230. You will also have three points imposed.

Remember that is the very best you can hope for and it relies on the court agreeing that you committed one continuous offence. If you fail with that argument (which I believe is highly likely) it will cost you twice as much (although the prosecution may ask for only one lot of costs). If you fail with the second argument as well (two offences committed on the same occasion) it will cost you twice as much and you will also see two endorsements and six points.

In summary, unless you can get the police to treat them as a single offence, going to court would be more costly whichever way it pans out, and in all probability, very much more costly, both in £££s and points.

Don't forget that whatever correspondence you enter into with the police, you must still respond to the "request for driver's details" within the time allowed.     

I disagree, the OP can accept one 3pt/£100 fixed penalty and then argue that any court case is arising from the same offence, if the court accepts then that was the result.

Yes thanks, Rookie. Didn't think of that.

I think it's a long shot at getting the offences, probably 15 miles apart, considered as one. But you never know; I imagine a lot will hinge on what went on between those two points. The problem is, failure in your scenario still results in two endorsements, six points and a considerably higher financial penalty. I think the OP needs to weigh that against the near certainty of a course and a FP, three points and £200-ish.

Quote from: The Rookie on September 01, 2024, 03:08:26 pm

I disagree, the OP can accept one 3pt/£100 fixed penalty and then argue that any court case is arising from the same offence, if the court accepts then that was the result.

And how likely is it that that argument will succeed?

I don’t think it’s likely at all (regardless of the approach used, they are just too far apart) I was just saying that NJ’s best wasn’t IMO the best.