Author Topic: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024  (Read 316 times)

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HASxii

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court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« on: December 01, 2024, 07:59:33 pm »
Hello everyone,

I hope you're all well.
Apologies for the late notice on this topic, I was only notified of this forum during the week and only now have time to post. I will give a concise summary of the case and attach links with relevant images as im seeking advice on how to proceed with my case;

An average speed Camera allegedly caught me doing 49 in a 40mph zone on 27/2/24, I received the s172 and NIP letter on 4/3/24. I was the driver at the time and sent the letter off stating that.
18/03/24 I received conditional offer, I notified them that I would like to contest this matter and did nothing afterwards.
12/08/24, I received a letter to present my plea to which I replied 'not guilty' and my reasoning was that I am a pharmacist working outside the city and I take this route almost every single day so I know the speed limit is 40 and I put the car on cruise control set to 40 or enable the limiter to prevent me exceeding 40. From the images they provided there was another car next to me so I mentioned that it could be the case that the camera picked up their speed and registered my VRN.
23/09/24, I received my court summons for 05/12/24.
18/10/24, received email about a certificate signed by witness and if I would like to have them present the evidence orally, to which I replied 'yes'.

I understand the short notice of this topic but I would really appreciate any advise on how to proceed in court to fight my case in order to increase my chances of success.
Please see the below links for images, if you require anything else please dont hesitate to dm me.

https://ibb.co/qxVSRZW
https://ibb.co/CbrYmFw
https://ibb.co/J5CK2fm
https://ibb.co/yW8dYgb
https://ibb.co/ZNjvzrk
https://ibb.co/C1Mptc9
https://ibb.co/XbhBmFq
https://ibb.co/FqtbNNg
https://ibb.co/WHXXWdF
https://ibb.co/kJGfXYR
https://ibb.co/5YwLTr0
https://ibb.co/vcg8ZTq
https://ibb.co/8cR0Wnn
https://ibb.co/JmkFj86
https://ibb.co/Kj1NWvx
https://ibb.co/6vCftVG

thank you & Kind regards!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2024, 08:10:42 pm by HASxii »

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NewJudge

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2024, 08:17:19 pm »
Quote
"...there was a nother car next to me so I mentioned that it coult be the case that the camera picked up their speed and registered my VRN.

That defence is very unlikely to succeed.

Average speed systems work by recording the VRM of each vehicle as it passes the beginning of the stretch. A device at the end of the stretch does the same thing as the vehicle leaves the stretch, The time between the two detections is measured and the average speed of the vehicle over the stretch calculated from the known distance between the two points.

You will need to convince the court that your cruise control, and the way you drove is likely to be more reliable than an approved speed measurement system.

You may want to consider changing your plea. If you are convicted following a trial, as well as the fine and "victim surcharge" you will probably be ordered to pay prosecution costs in the order of £650.

FuzzyDuck

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2024, 09:04:47 pm »
The presence of another vehicle is irrelevant, as NewJudge has stated your speed is calculated by how long it takes to cover a known distance, the other vehicle has no effect of the calculation.

So for the speed to be wrong, one of two things would need to be wrong:

  • Either the distance between the cameras is shorter than has been input into the system, very unlikely or this stretch of road would be getting 1000's of speeders per hour. This would have flagged up a problem.
  • If the time is wrong the calculation, but as the same clock is used for the measurement this is unlikely to be the case
So I suspect you will be found guilty and if the prosecution call an expert witness to show how the speed is correct, expect the court costs to be in 4 figures.

The fixed penalty was the way to dispose of this cheaply, that is now not an option. Any idea why an awareness course was not offered?

HASxii

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2024, 09:19:07 pm »
I see, the court hearing is going to be in 4 days I doubt I can change my plea now, what about the revalidation and calibration of the camera, its yearly check was due after it caught me, could that not be used as evidence?
I have done an awareness course previously.

Southpaw82

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2024, 09:32:34 pm »
A mechanical device (including the camera setup) is presumed to be working correctly unless you can prove otherwise.

You can change your plea at the start of your trial. It won’t save you a great deal in costs (probably) but you will probably get 10% off the fine.
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.

HASxii

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2024, 09:42:44 pm »
I was advised to try and ask for further evidence in relation to the captured images and if there is video proof?

and if I am found guilty to ask for mitigation?

Southpaw82

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2024, 10:06:02 pm »
I was advised to try and ask for further evidence in relation to the captured images and if there is video proof?

Advised by whom?

Quote
and if I am found guilty to ask for mitigation?

What mitigation?
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.

NewJudge

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2024, 10:07:41 pm »
Quote
I was advised to try and ask for further evidence in relation to the captured images and if there is video proof?

There is unlikely to be any. There certainly won't be any video evidence.

Quote
and if I am found guilty to ask for mitigation?

Mitigation relates to factors which seek to reduce the court's penalty by lessening the seriousness of the offence or claiming your personal circumstances warrant a reduced penalty. You don't ask for mitigation, you present it for the court's consideration.

Who is giving you this advice?

You can change your plea at any time up until the prosecution closes its case in court. The first thing you will be asked in court after confirming your identity is whether you want to maintain your guilty plea. Alternatively you can try contacting the court before the 5th to inform them.

A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity attracts a discount of one third off the fine. "At the door of the court" will see that reduced to, perhaps 10%. Similarly an early guilty plea will see the prosecution ask for just £90-ish in costs. The amount they ask for at a late stage is up to them, but should be less than the £650 I mentioned if the trial went the distance.

HASxii

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2024, 10:11:55 pm »
a friend of a friend is a police officer and said to request further evidence relating your case,
and the mitigation was if the fine was too much for me to pay, given by a relative who had a similar case but more severe.

contacting the court now when I had all that time before would look unprofessional and may not reflect well on myself and the first question will be "why didn't you say that at the start?"

HASxii

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2024, 10:12:49 pm »
@NewJudge

Where do you find the information regarding the fee's you mentioned?

NewJudge

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NewJudge

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2024, 10:29:54 pm »
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a friend of a friend is a police officer and said to request further evidence relating your case,

There is some very firm advice, often given on here: the very last person you should turn to for legal advice - particularly on traffic matters -  is a serving police officer.

Quote
and the mitigation was if the fine was too much for me to pay, given by a relative who had a similar case but more severe.

Fines are based on income. If you claim you cannot pay the court will examine your finances.

Quote
contacting the court now when I had all that time before would look unprofessional and may not reflect well on myself and the first question will be "why didn't you say that at the start?"

No it won't.

HASxii

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Re: court summons for average speed offence on 05/12/2024
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2024, 10:55:03 pm »
thank you for the advice everyone, if anybody has any other words of guidance it'll be much appreciated  :)