We have a van we use and we move cars and deliver them, mot them etc etc, we are just a group of lads who work on cars, buy and sell, even race them, not an offical company as such, i (as the company secretary) recived a request to nominte driver for the offence of driving without due care. I answered back i personally was in Taunton that weekend and have asked and nobody can recall anything, i asked if they could provide footage and this may help narrow it down. They refused, another letter came, i said the same, they said they could not see the driver and can say no more until i know, i again asked for more help, for example if there was a tailer only 2 people would have legally been able to use a trailer with a 3.5 tonne van.
They have written back saying it lies with me (whoever me is) and the notice lies in the company name. And they cant discuss anything till the driver is confirmed, yet previously they said they cant discuss at all.
They seem to be making very much hard work for no reason, almost forcing me to give a name, i have explained i have tried all i can and are now telling me to name the driver or get 6 points.
What can they do now? I havent simply said im not naming ive said as company secretary i cant name. Should i lie?
Is the S172 in your name or addressed to the company?
Who is the registered keeper?
Are all the people who drive the van insured on it?
s172 is addressed to company name, not personal, and is fao of the company secretary, not that there is such a person. Reg keeper is the company
Anyone using for company reasons are insured. As earlier stated i am not aware of who was the driver. (this is an operation snap jobby)
not an offical company as such,
Is the vehicle registered to a legal entity (an actual person or a registered company - e.g. Trotters' Independent Trading Co. Limited), or is it registered to an imaginary name that you, Rodney and Mickey Pierce decided to trade under?
i (as the company secretary)
Are very close to having this thread locked unless you provide a meaningful answer sharpish.
The police are not making hard work for no reason. They need to find out who was driving a vehicle at the time an offence was alleged to have been committed. They have no obligation to assist you in in identifying the driver and providing his details.
If the Company fails to make a satisfactory response to the request it will be prosecuted and if convicted will face a fine of up to £1,000. However, since a Company cannot have a driving licence or driving record, no endorsement or points can be imposed.
There is a defence to the charge which says you would not be convicted if you did not know who was driving and could not find out having exercised "reasonable diligence". But before a Company can take advantage of that it must show that no records of who drives the vehicle were kept and that it was reasonable not to do so. From your description of the business, I think you may have difficulty doing that.
As above, if you have registered the vehicle in the name of a "Company" perhaps in an effort to make matters like this difficult to prosecute, then all bets are off.
Is any one of you in particular responsible for "keeping" the van?
When you say it's not an official company, that will have some bearing on matters. As Andy Foster mentions, is it registered with Companies House as a company? By you as an individual failing to name the driver you could face a fine of up to £1000 and 6 points, and a hefty increase in your insurnace premiums for a few years. If you as the secretary of a Limited Company fail to name the driver, the company will face a fine of up to £1000.
This may also attract attention from the boys in blue and the DVSA, do you have an operators licence for the van with trailer, is the van fitted with a tachograph? A can of worms will open up.
When you say it's not an official company, that will have some bearing on matters. As Andy Foster mentions, is it registered with Companies House as a company? By you as an individual failing to name the driver you could face a fine of up to £1000 and 6 points, and a hefty increase in your insurnace premiums for a few years. If you as the secretary of a Limited Company fail to name the driver, the company will face a fine of up to £1000.
This may also attract attention from the boys in blue and the DVSA, do you have an operators licence for the van with trailer, is the van fitted with a tachograph? A can of worms will open up.
Appreciate totally what you say, thing is we arent all `Sainsburys` i sell cars, but they want to be treated like thayve bought from Cazoo, i think to be registerd with CH dont you need to be a PLC?
I will have to state i have used diligence but am unable to name, i think its important that if you are accused of somehting, by someone, you need them to be showing you evidence, wouldnt you expect this if someone knocked your door with an accusation? I have stated to them i cannot guess as the wrong name would be a criminal matter.
Do i need an operators licence, tacho? Thanks for the heads up ill check that out right now. Thanks for your assistance.
Appreciate totally what you say, thing is we arent all `Sainsburys` i sell cars, but they want to be treated like thayve bought from Cazoo, i think to be registerd with CH dont you need to be a PLC?
That would be news to the tens of thousands of small business owners who have set up limited companies for their trade. At least one member of this forum uses a limited company as part of their trade as a tribunal representative. If you want to register a real company it can be done for £50:
https://www.gov.uk/limited-company-formation/register-your-companyIf a vehicle is registered in the name of a fictitious company, DVLA will be interested as there are criminal offences around driving a vehicle that is not correctly registered with DVLA.
Thousands of people have incorrectly registered vehicles because they've moved house and forgotten to update their address, but DVLA doesn't seem to to be too bothered. The one instance I have seen DVLA actually prosecute someone for using an incorrectly registered vehicle is where some bright spark decided it would be clever to register a vehicle incorrectly as a way to circumvent section 172. IIRC he pleaded guilty to an offence under VERA 1994, possibly as a way of avoiding more serious charges.
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